Well thats positive then!!! I was expecting you to say she was shutoff and angry again the next time you spoke, but in fact, she was still opening up and crying on your shoulder. I think you meant above that you offered to let her have D all through the holidays, to spend at her Dads with D, is that right? Or did you mean, you would have D, so she could go see her Dad? I was confused.
It think its a huge baby step that she poured out more to you on the phone. I left my (controlling, possessive and mildly abusive) partner after 4 1/2 years when I was younger but I still loved him and I was so angry and hurt that he was like that toward me and drove me to move out. But 6 months later, when my Grandad died, he was the first person I phoned and he came straight over and just held me. Becuase we still loved each other. If we had been older (I was 23) we could have sorted it out I think, but he refused to go for T, so we never did. Tragic! I wanted more than anything for him to fix it, but he couldnt step up.
So, from a womans point of view, the fact that she is turning to you when she feels vunerable is huge. I guess the point is, you have clarity now.. you never had that in the R because you could "get away" with you behaviour, until the day she threatened to leave, or got an OM and you had to face up to it ?
I hope that you can continue to be supportive and be her friend, whilst showing her that you are working on yourself. Are you still seeing the T?
Ali x
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
it never ceases to amaze me lately how much hurt we can inflict on another person because of love.
I so totally agree, especially when we don't love ourselves 1st.
RTL
Hi RTL-
I have been following along as always. Fabulous work on your part! The ... not loving ourselves 1st really was played into my ear by an 'entire orchestra' it seemed. That is the perpetual struggle that I am faced w/ due to W's complete absence of "real" love for herself.
I will leave you w/ a quote from my W which aptly describes the way she feels inside herself regarding trying to find the ingredients to be a thoughtful, loving and pleasing W to me. She once asked me this direct question,
"T, do you think that if you were confined to a life in a cave that you would be able to determine the weather outside that cave?"
She spoke this to me during a particularly stressed out and hostile time (of the multitude of those times) between us. On the spur of the moment and seeing the oportunity to respond in a humorous fashion (or so I thought), I said, "IDK, it would depend on whether the cave had internet access". Part of the reason why I responded in the smart a$$ which I did was because her question came out of the blue. We had been making an extremely long all night car trip on this particular ocassion and we were both spent and exhausted and we stopped for a 10:00PM bite to eat and then she decided to open up to me with that question after the previous hours in the car had been rather quiet while she ruminated.
Yes, I'd have to see it as a positive. It certainly wasn't a negative as she did open up again. I offered to support her if the worst happened and my offer of the holidays was to allow her to take D w/ her as well. It may be the last times they'll see him if things keep going as they currently are, so I would never want to deprive either of them of that opportunity.
As for me, yes, W's statement of her unhappiness did wake me up and it was a total surprise. I had zero idea it was coming and never thought she was unhappy being married to me. I'm still in therapy and I'm not looking to end it anytime soon. However, my current T doesn't want me to have any thoughts or feelings still alive about W. So, that is a bit dicey right now. Currently, I just focus on myself and how I'm progressing and try to leave W out of our sessions.
If we start to reconcile, I can always find a new therapist who will understand. Also, I think the landscape w/ my T would change tremendously if we were in T together to work on our relationship. But, that's a ways off yet, so there's not much need to go there now.
So for now, I'm just going to do as you suggested - be her friend and be supportive. I was really hoping for some question, you know, just something from her yesterday about our text chat the night before, but got nothing. I will say I was a bit disappointed, but not defeated. I was having a small bit of expectation, but more in a wish and hope sense. So, for now, I'll just sit back and wait for her to bring it up again. It may be today, or may not be today. Who really knows?
If we can stay on this productive course we're on now, it won't matter when it comes up again, will it?
I thought you did incredibly well. Unfortunately, I'm nervous that you could actually get back together. Every single one of her texts was how terrible and evil you were and how you destroyed her. Maybe I don't know your situation well enough, but I find it hard to imagine that you actually did that. Did you? She's completely wrapped up in your faults...starting with her again would put you on eggshells until a time you stood up for yourself and then she'd run again.
Personally, I think you said what you needed to say, were kind and supportive, understanding, and validating. Now it's time to step back rather than keep nursing this along. She is still the same woman that spouted out untruths about you and now that I saw that exchange between you, I'm convinced that she actually believes it. If she came back now you couldn't actually move forward as a couple. She would be too much work for you to do any self-work. Until she can look at herself some and come to terms with the fact that you didn't "destroy her" (did you?), then you will be destined to go back. She won't let you avoid it.
Me
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
I'm also very concerned. In this phase, I've admitted to her that I have made some mistakes, but if we are to ever work, she'll have to make some major concessions on her own.
Even if she said she wanted back today, I wouldn't be living w/ her again. We'd be in separate residences, be in individual and couples counseling/therapy, and basically try and "date" again to see if we can be together after all.
I definitely wouldn't blindly get back into this and I wouldn't even jump in w/ two feet. In fact, I'd be a bit cautious of even putting a toe in the water right now.
There must be some MASSIVE movement on her part, beginning w/ her admitting that she was not being truthful w/ the stories she told about me and us. I didn't "destroy" her, but she seems to think that I did. I'll own up to my part in everything, but I'd just be repeating a cycle if I returned to a W who will not take up responsibility for her role in all of this. You are absolutely correct that she is completely wrapped up in "my faults" and we can't move forward until she looks at "her faults." I'm owning my end of the deal and maybe in time, she'll realize there was much more than me causing our issues.
I'm very glad to see your concern and I need to hear these things in order to make sure I stay grounded and in check w/ reality and what is the correct course to take.
Thanks for your insight and for letting me know I handled it well w/ W. Now, like you said, it isn't time for me to nurse this back to health, but for me to just continue to play my part and let W come to the realization that this is what she wants. If she gets to that point, we can actually have some serious discussions about us.
Only time will tell. I did just see her a bit ago as I picked up D. She looked me in the eye a few times which is different as she usually works hard to avoid eye contact or any sort of conversation w/ me. We talked about a few things and it was a nice exchange.
Again, I do need to be very, very wary and cautious, and I will. In the short run, it is nice to be able to be w/ her w/out so much tension spewing forth from her toward me.
Will things change? Maybe, maybe not. Again, time and patience are the only two weapons I have right now and I just need to ride things out to see how they finish.
Thanks again. I can't pur a price on the value of your wisdom to me in my sitch, sir. Thank you very much.
Very neutral right now and that is really putting an optimistic spin on things. She had me sign off on a 2nd round of papers just over a week ago and she has now moved from her apt into her ex's place which is where her D19 is as well. They are one happy family ...maybe. She claims not though. The only other piece of news which was an underhanded maneuver on W's part was that she got herself out of her lousy car payment sitch. She bought the car just over a year ago and was ready for another one I guess. So aparently she sought out the deep pockets of her ex to help her buy a brand new Tiny Kia. I learned about it because I have been paying for her auto insuranceand I noticed an ammendment to the policy. And she thinks she is the "great communicator".
Things aren't good. They will get better though. God's love for us stretches far and wide and he is merciful and magnificent.
I'm sorry to hear about your sitch. It seems like it is not going quite as you'd like. All you can do is continue to work on yourself and let the rest fall into place as it is designed to do.
D and I had a lot of fun yesterday. We went to see "Kung Fu Panda" and she LOVED it! We then hung out for a while and I took D to the gym w/ me so she could play in their child play area - she's been bugging me non-stop to go so she could play, so it allowed me to workout too. Kind of a win-win, eh?
I made us steak for dinner by request and we watched a movie together before calling it a night. When D called W, W and I did speak for a little bit and she told me she had gone to the DMV and waited for 1 1/2 to get the tabs and registration for the old Civic I'm driving. I thanked her and our talk was ok, but nothing special. At least it wasn't mean-spirited as they have been in the past.
As for today, D and I will have to head up to my school as I need to get a summer reading assignment copied and sent out for my AP US History kids and then, who knows what we'll end up doing. Maybe we'll get a car wash - D for some reason thinks that is so incredibly cool - and then hit a swimming pool or something. I'm really not sure, but I know we'll do something fun with the remaining few hours we have today.
I do get her on Friday until Monday for Father's Day, so that too should be nice. I love all the time I get w/ D, but I only wish we were still a complete family to enjoy things. Maybe someday, maybe not.
RTL, I have away for a while but I can see your outlook has gotten positive. You are only working on things that you can control. Good for you! I am sure you are now taking as much as you can from the time you spend with your D. The time I spend w/ my S wil never be replaced and I am sure you ahve been told it is not the quantity of time you spend with your kids but the quality.
Keep up the good work...
Me=29 WAW=25 S=2 "I need a break" = 6/07 Filed = 12/07
