I'm a newcomer to this site, and just finished SSM yesterday. Since I haven't found many threads that address the LD perspective, I thought I'd create my own.
Greetings Nightmare, and welcome to the SSM board. I'm glad you chimed in here: with the wonderful exception of DanceQueen, it's been turning into the Grumpy Old Men's club a bit too much of late.
DQ (I'll have to call her DairyQueen sometime, just to rib her), has been giving you some great advice, to which I'll only add two things:
(1) Have your husband read The SSM from cover to cover also. It will make him feel so much better that an author out there actually understands HIS side of the story and what physical intimacy means to a man, in particular. As you know, there is also a section of the book devoted entirely to HIM -- he needs to do his part too. This must be a two-way, two-person effort or it won't work.
(2) Be sure to re-read the section that talks about the Marriage Catch-22, and what physical intimacy means to a man. Then share that understanding with your husband, perhaps after he had read the same portion of the book. The day that my wife finally "got it," after more than 20 years of marriage, was one of the most important moments in our relationship, and in my mind, absolutely crucial toward getting our relationship back on track.
Again, welcome, and best of luck to you.
Bagheera
Last edited by Bagheera; 06/05/0812:23 AM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I want to give you a suggestion. Maybe one of your counselors has given you this one or you've read it somewhere already.
The suggestion is this: Try spending your day fantasizing about you and your husband. Any time you have a free moment to daydream, deliberately create a love scene in your mind between yourself and your husband. You do not have to make this a sexual fantasy. It can be about kissing, hugging, mashing, or just cuddling or talking. But get really into the fantasy. Even if just for a moment or two at a time.
Try to spend 30 minutes to an hour of total time during one day (not necessarily all at once) fantasizing about you and your husband together in some form of intimacy. Then take a day off. Then the next day, do the fantasies again every time you have a moment to yourself with a clear head and no distractions, close your eyes, and go to that scene again...again try to end up spending 30 minutes to an hour total.
Do this every other day for a few weeks. This is just a starter exercise, to begin getting your mind used to the idea of intimacy with your husband. You may find that your mind fights these fantasies, or you get bored and are not really getting into them. The point is not to really get that into them. It won't be the same as fantasizing while trying to achieve orgams. This will just be fantasizing for the fun of it, even if it doesn't seem fun at first.
If you do this for a while and find it easy, then start adding spice or nudity or more sexual ideas to the fantasy. Just make sure it is YOU and YOUR HUSBAND. Don't let your mind drift elsewhere.
During other times - you are free to fantasize the way you normally would (similar to watching other people on TV like you described). But when you are really trying to apply the above exercise, make sure it is ONLY you and your husband. You can either watch yourselves like on tv in your fantasy, or you can try to "be" in the image of you. Either way, or change it up.
Your mind currently has no connection between your husband and your sexuality. Your mind does have connection between him and your intimacy and emotions, but not your sexuality. You have to put mental effort into "linking" him up with your sexuality.
Your issues are very much fixable, sweetie. I want you to NEVER tell yourself that it is hopeless or that you are some kind of failure. What you are describing happens to lots of women, and men too! Being profoundly sexually intimate with a person is very difficult! I have never understood how some people can just be completely sexually intimate with a stranger (no judgement there, I just can't imagine doing that).
I have had some similar issues to yours in getting very close and sexually intimate - I can relate to what you are saying. There is something so personal about being sexual at all in any way, that it is frightening to be so vulnerable as to express that sexuality "out loud" in front of someone, so to speak. It has taken me my whole life to truly meld intimacy, emotional and romantic love, and sex all into one person and one relationship. I am finally "there" - and it was a long road. Hopefully yours will not be as long! I sure wish I had read SSM when I was young and married, like you.
Let me know what you think about the exercise. I have other suggestions, too. But I want to know what you think first.
Most important, tell yourself RIGHT NOW - THIS CAN WORK. You don't know how its going to work yet, but your body does. Trust your body that it will know what to do once you let go with your mind. It may take a long time but that is really OK...you will succeed and that is the important part. Don't let your mind tell you that you are going to fail. YOU WON'T.
You are headed toward your own beautiful, natural, sexual self to be released with your loving husband. This is where you are supposed to go, and inside you know that and you are listening to that inner "you" who says "I want to be free to express my sexuality with the man who loves me". That voice cannot be stopped once you start letting it talk to you. Give it power and voice and follow it. Its stearing you toward heavenly bliss you will not believe you were missing.
Maybe I missed it, but I'm not seeing what your husband thinks about all of this. Is he depressed? Frustrated? Does he complain about the lack of sex and intimacy, or is this just you wanting to fix things?
Thanks for your message. I think it's a good idea for my husband to read SSM and have asked him to do so when I'm done with my copy. I'm currently re-reading it (paying particular attention to certain sections, like those I've underlined) so that I can ensure that I've really absorbed it -- I will focus on the Catch-22 section as you recommended.
I feel like I'm starting to "get it" in a way that I haven't before. In the past, there has been lots of argument back and forth, with me getting defensive when my husband has expressed his anger or hurt. SSM made me understand his point of view in a way that I hadn't considered before, and frankly in a way that I completely sympathize with.
You wrote: "The day that my wife finally "got it," after more than 20 years of marriage, was one of the most important moments in our relationship, and in my mind, absolutely crucial toward getting our relationship back on track."
I was wondering if you could elaborate on this experience for you? (Or as much as you feel comfortable). I am curious what happened -- how did she know that she "got it"? How did she communicate that to you? How were you able to trust that she actually did "get it"? What were your next steps after she "got it"?
I want to reiterate how much I appreciate your kind, thoughtful messages. Really.
I like your suggestion for the exercise -- I will do it. I think what you're saying about the disconnect between my husband and my sexual self is very true. I feel so completely connected to him in so many other ways, but I have been unable to figure out how to deal with this lack of connection. I've contemplated orchestrating romantic weekends, have started 'date nights" or have made sure we spend quality time together, which is nice, but still doesn't seem to further our sexual relationship. I'll work on the exercise you suggested and keep you posted.
Last night, I broached the topic of trying the "just do it" strategy with my husband. I think it was a productive conversation, albeit difficult, because it got us talking honestly (and without anger) about what it would take for us to try that. We're talking again tonight, but have asked each other to contemplate a list of questions to help further our discussion.
Puppy Dog Tails asked about my husband's perspective. My husband is extremely hurt and fearful of being hurt again. He feels especially unloved -- as I've been his only partner, it raises questions about whether he is even lovable (which breaks my heart). He is angry because he feels that I have put him in this situation, which is out of his control. He has begged me for years to try and do something about this, but due to my fear/inability to act, I have for a long time let his pleas go by the wayside. Nowadays, he's also angry because he doesn't understand how somebody who loves someone else, can also put them through such pain. He feels that he is at the end of his rope and has given everything he can, and needs me to step up and fix this situation. That said, he says he wants to be able to be as close to me as I'll let him, with or without the sex, because he loves me and considers me a soulmate. He is also in counseling to address his side of the issue, and seems gingerly willing to try things as long as he can be sure he won't be hurt once again.
Anyway, to get back to last night's discussion. My H asked me to think about several things: 1) Is there some way that I can figure this out (how to prevent myself from pulling away, how to execute sex, how to want to be with him) that doesn't involve him being the guinea pig? (as the "just do it" -- herein abbreviated JDI-- strategy might do). 2) What can I do to make him more willing to try the JDI strategy? 3) What contraceptive methods am I willing to try (other than birth control pills, which I would rather avoid (keeping meds to a minimum) and condoms, which reduce his pleasure)
In addition, he's thought of several things that would have to happen for him to consider the JDI strategy: 1) I no longer feel repelled by being sexual with him 2) I think about what it means to be excited together, and do things that are exciting to him. (note: exciting does not mean "pleasurable". I am still mulling over what this means.) 3) It cannot feel like "work" or "clinical" when we're just doing it 4) I need to have an idea why I put my husband through this pain.
I have asked him to contemplate some questions too: 1) Think about what else he needs in order to try the JDI plan 2) What are things he can do by himself (ie: not with me) that can help him be more open to the JDI plan? 3) Discuss the JDI plan with someone else he is close to and get their feedback 4) When I'm done with the book, read SSM.
So, I'm considering my questions and how to answer.
In other news, this morning, we had some nice semi-intimate time in bed when we woke up with cuddling, rubbing, touching. I was particularly aware of my desire level, and found that when I paid more attention to how I moved (stimulating various parts of my vagina by rubbing against my H's genitals) in order to feel pleasure, it heightened my interest. You might say, um, YEAH, of COURSE. I should point out that in the past, I have felt inhibited to move in order to heighten my own pleasure. Rather, I've thought of it as for OUR pleasure, and have felt somewhat self conscious about moving/rubbing/acts that intensify my own pleasure. I think it goes back to the old feelings of "good girls don't do this". Somehow my brain has made the connection self pleasure=bad. I need to figure out how to break that connection.
Also, after my shower this morning, we had some simple hugging/touching time with me in my towel and him in his underwear, and I remember feeling at one point a distinct fear (hard to pinpoint, unless I'm being extremely aware of myself) and urge to move away and go do something else. Instead, I told myself that this is my husband and he loves me, and wouldn't do anything to hurt me. That helped.
So, in addition to the mental gymnastics of trying to figure this all out, I think I need to have some idea of why I have these fears. What am I afraid of? Losing myself? Losing him? Again, I reiterate, there's no history of abuse (as far as I know), so it seems somewhat irrational to me.
Ok, that was a lot of stuff.
Anyway, I appreciate the thoughts and will keep working.
I have been following along just to gain a woman's perspective, but I do have one thought for you. By the way, you can (should) confirm this with your husband. For me, it is the MOST exciting and rewarding if I know my wife is getting pleasure from sex, particularly if she is taking steps to increase HER pleasure. This makes her seem like a sexual creature (highly desirable). Your husband probably feels the same. SO, be released to do things that stimulate only you during your times together. He probably would not only not mind, but would enjoy it as well. It takes very little mechanically for sex to be pretty good for a guy. Most of our satisfaction and ego boost is from having pleasured or been part of pleasuring our partners. I doubt if you husband would be offended if you went solo with him watching. Again, this is kind of individual, but the point is to let you know that you can be very selfish from your point of view, and your husband will most likely not see it that way.
You asked about the disconnect between my positive perception of my upbringing and my internalization of messages about sex being dirty/shameful.
I think I should elaborate a bit here. While growing up, my parents rarely, if ever showed affection towards each other, told us we were not allowed to tease them about that (we'd try and get them to hold hands etc...), and never discussed sex , although they have a happy, and sexually satisfying marriage.
I think this behavior is largely due to the culture in which they were raised. My parents had an arranged marriage, moved to the US from a country where these things weren't really discussed, and in the absence of extended family (cousins, aunts, etc...) nearby, I wasn't really educated by others either. My mom did try to have a conversation about the "birds and the bees" when I got to puberty, and I told her that we'd talked about it in school, and that I didn't want to talk about it with her. In reality, I think I was very afraid, and even in sex-ed in high school, I ignored that homework, failing my first test ever (normally I was a stellar student).
When I started dating my first boyfriend (outside of the cultural fold), my parents were very concerned because dating wasn't really "done" in their world. But because my parents wanted to be open minded (or at least try to be), they let me date (with various arguments about curfew etc...). My mom was worried that I'd have pre-marital sex, and we had a conversation in which she asked about my physical relations with my boyfriend. I told her that I had no intent to have sex until I was married. When I later told her about my first kiss (all aglow and happy), my mom looked at me disappointed, and said "I thought we had decided no sex before marriage!". Thus ensued an argument about how we each defined sex.
So, I guess there were some negative messages about sex, but I still maintain that otherwise I had a good childhood (good friends, generally happy) and a supportive family. (Additionally, my sister, who is younger than me, has none of the sexual problems that I have -- although of course it can be argued that every child's experience is different.)
My parents are completely clued in to our problems now, and are going out of their way to be available and helpful in any way that they can. My mom explained her behavior in my adolescence as being consistent with how she was raised. Her family never discussed intimacy or sex when she was growing up, and when she was married (to man she had met for less than a week), she literally knew nothing about sex. Her father took my dad aside and quite explicitly told him that my mom knew nothing and that my dad would have to teach her. Which he did.
In some ways, it's baffling to me that my parents have such a good relationship. They are supportive of each other, loving, and have been married for over three decades. They enjoy each other and have few complaints. Somehow, without any knowledge and with the messages they had, they figured out their own sexuality.
