For the Guy with Kids and a WW4

[hopeful4her]

At this point, don't they think that we are ALL controlling?

I considered myself to be the classic passive aggressive. Very even tempered. Quiet and unassuming. Always treated WW lovingly and tenderly. People HAD to like me. Never the in your face person. I would always do something funny, then someone would want me to do it again, and I couldn't. Unable to make fun of myself. I have always let her have her way. I am usually the one to get home first. I would always ask WW what she wanted for dinner. To me a normal question. I think to her, she wants me to just make the decision. Same with going out. What do YOU want to do? Non-confrontational.

You are correct that being strong, leading and even a bit confrontational would be a 180 for me.

I was also unemotional for the most part. When we(or she) moved nephew into the house, I also very much became grouch. I was very unhappy with it. Became much like my father. I am no longer that person.

My 180's are being able to laugh at myself, be silly, decisive, work on things outside the house, try to do guy stuff(like watching sports like I used to years and years ago), go out with the guys(not really done that one yet), taking kids out on my own without WW, working out, riding rollercoasters and rides. Going to movies(crowds bugged me), and taking stands.

There are so many other things that I could do, but these are just a start.

I am still learning. It is the 180's in my relationship that I have to figure out. Hopeful that it is not too late for it.

[lost_in_space]

H4H

Have you also been one to suppress your feeling in conversations with her? You and I seem so much alike. My 180 is trying to talk about feelings (and it needs to be about real stuff - I caught chit for talking about fluff...) and be more assertive in my thoughts, but not so darn controlling. Yes, I have gotten the same ALL CONTROLLING and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.

Stay strong and come back often - we can figure this out together!

[hopeful4her]

wdid, you are always relevant.

I guess I miswrote. You were going to share custody, but let your son live with husband. Is that correct?

WW has selective memory. It's like she just didn't feel loved. I think a lot to do with love languages. I think that acts of service and me getting out and doing things, but I think that she is so set in her mind right now, that it just doesn't seem to matter. OM is younger, hunter and fisher kind of guy, writes like he has a 10th grade education, and smaller than I. I am a big guy. Not in a slob way, but big. Could lose another 30 pounds. WW is not a small woman herself. Big but pretty proportioned. I am the same. Fairly proportioned. I got both of my parents. Dad was an athlete and very muscular. Mom is fat. I have always been a big guy. I was also an athlete. OM is handsome, I suppose. We seem to be complete opposites. Polar opposites. He makes her laugh. Again, something I have been working on. I have a different type of sense of humor than WW. I am very dry. Trying to let my sillyness out.

Sometimes feel like I just can't compete.

[hopeful4her]

lis,

That is another thing. The conversation. I am quiet. I was the type that when WW asks me how my day was, I said, "Good, but it was busy/slow." No details. I didn't know that she wanted details.

Also, we live out kind of in a rural area. A 12 minute drive through the Texas Hill Country. Beautiful. I use it to meditate. I am quiet on the drive. WW wanted me to talk to her. She hates the silence. I just enjoy the drive. I have learned that I have to talk about stuff on this drive.

Or when we go out. Over dinner. Like we didn't know what to talk about if we weren't talking about the kids.

I told WW that if she wanted to talk so bad, why not talk to ME. Start convo with ME. Why does it always have to be me to talk to her. She calls me boring. If I'm so boring, how come you don't have sh** to talk about. She is just as boring as I am. I just never told her. OM is exciting because he is different. Thats all. Just different. She says he is a nice guy. Just like me. If we were not in this sitch, we would probably be friends, she said once.

Please.

But she is right and I'm wrong.

Right?

[whatdidido]

Not quite correct. I know my H would have lived in the same city as me JUST so that we could both have Lucas equally. We would have had him absolutely equally. Something like: I would have him M, T, W A.M., he would have him W P.M., Th, and F, and then every other weekend and holidays...something like that. Since we were really always friendly with each other we would have been flexible as well I'm sure. My son would have wanted something like this. He would miss me or him too much being away from each other that length of time. I just always thought that was the fairest to him.


The way you describe yourself is the way my H was. The things you are changing are the things he is working on now more than ever. Up until we got back together he just focused on S more than anything. If he had done some changing I would have come back quicker, and I think the changes you are doing are making your W stay right now...so that is good. You are doing everything you can and that is what you need to do. Now, SHE needs to come to the realization that she doesn't want to leave her family and that change is possible between you two. Anything more with retrovaille? How can she refuse this.....? Have you suggested she talk to a pastor or anything?

[hopeful4her]

Thanks for correcting me. You are now even MORE like WW. WAAYYY back, it was WW that brought up joint custody. Both of us just want them to physically. I think that that is what I wanted to set as far as a plan when I was hugging her Sunday. Maybe some kind of equal time plan. I hate to bring it up though.

Before her illness last year, we spoke to our Pastor. She went in defensive. Our Pastor had gone through a D himself about 4 years ago. Wife left him and the kids for another man and got pregnant by other man. WW felt like he was going to be jaded.

Of course he is. He is looking at it from a biblical perspective. After he heard each of our side, he then asked me if I was willing to work on the marriage. Of course I said yes. He then asked WW. She paused and said that we were both not going to like her answer.

He did not approach it correctly in my opinion. She was not there to be swayed one way or another.

As far as Retro, I have brought up counseling, but to no avail. I have not brought up Retro, as I think it would just be shot down. I brought up that I wanted us to go to counseling that day that I saw WW and OM having lunch together. Probably not the right time to bring it up. And Retro requires that no third party be involved. They have to be given up prior to Retro.

Recall that on the phone a couple of days later, we talked about family counseling and she was possibly up for that.

[hopeful4her]

Edit.

Both of us want the kids physically to live with us. She wants them and I want them.

[james85395]

Just got caught up reading your post. We are going through the same hell and my heart goes out to ya. Like you I am not the alpha male. I have let my wife call the shots from the begining. How do you detach from your wife when they pull the Dr Jekyl and Mr(s) Hyde card. They act as if they are so happy to be with you even initiating some physical contact. But if you cross their imaginary line they pull back fast. Even if you are good and don't screw up, they feel guilty the next day for leading you on and are as cold as ever. Please give me your insight on how to conquer this rollercoaster.

[whatisis]

H4H, you say you can't emotionally detach from W yet you want the M. The thing you MUST do is just what you're saying you can't do because that is the very thing that could save your M! I know it seems ludicrous, doesn't it! But, when you stop allowing your emotions to rule everything then you stop kneejerk reactions to her every move and/or word that comes out of her mouth. It's true, you start to make good thought out decisions about what 180's etc will make a dent. To detach doesn't mean to stop caring, it means to pull back and look at the bigger picture not just that miserable little microdot we focus on during these difficult times. Secondly, you must show that you are in control, not her. She needs to see a man who is strong, who will carry on with his life with or without her, that is actually attractive! I hope you are GALing and carrying on activities you enjoy because even if the M ends these things will carry you through. It's no lose to Get A Life! Lastly, don't give up on your best friend hopes, my point was just that unless she makes a big U turn and works on the M you won't be best friends again. As your W she can be your best friend, but as the woman who tore your heart out and betrayed you without remorse, she can never be a best friend again IMHO.
Btw, my STBX and I share time with our kids 50-50, I have an apartment a few blocks from W's house and the girls stay with me one week and W the next, it's been fine so it can be done!So hang in there and as a friend once told me "just remember, no matter how bad it gets, it will always get better" and she went through a far worse divorce hell than I did. That thought got me through some very tough times and I discovered it really is true!

[whatisis]

One last thing, OM is NOT the problem! She didn't become involved with the OM because life was a bed of roses for her at home, she went elsewhere because something was missing. She was suceptible because of that not because some incredible specimen of manhood swept her off her feet. We often want to put all the blame on the OP but that only bi-passes the reality, there were things not right in the M and to regain the M we must address what those things are. OP is a sad human being who in order to meet his/her own needs is willing to break up a family. I can't imagine how they live with themselves! Better to be me than either my unfaithful W or her pathetic lover.