Hope4us struggle, part 4

[Hope4us]

You could very well be right Pup. I've had the same thought as you about her being pissed at my "saintliness". And I can see this as being a huge problem in our potential recovery. I sometimes feel that WW would rather go through a divorce that she doesn't really want than to admit to me she F'd up and my potentially saying "I told you so" to her. I mean, the first time she told me about OM and how he moved from job to job every couple years and his wife and kids live 1000 miles away I guaranteed her he "has women on the side". And she just kept tellling me she was a big girl and could handle herself.

Then she starts the affair and rewrites the martial history so she can feel better about herself, because it has to be real love or she wouldn't do it, right? But then OM cuts and runs once I expose to OMW and I expose WW's STD. And many times after D-day I would ask her if she really thought OM doesn't do this in every city he moves to and she'd just reply "I don't know" or "we don't talk about that". Of course you don't. And you're right (IMHO) about him ending it. I've mentioned it before, but I've seen TM's and some other evidence that she's wanted him to come up here at least two times and maybe three since January and he hasn't come. A couple of those TM's the enabler GF asked WW "What was his excuse for not coming up" and WW gave his excuse. The way the TM's were it was like the GF was asking what the excuse was "this time". All this would be consistent with what OMW told me about OM moving on as soon as his previous affairs were discovered.

So now WW has to fight the demons of possibly throwing a good marriage for her "soulmate" who convinced her he "can make you happy forever" but then cut an ran in typical wayward fashion AND then dealing with a LBS who she's discovered she has a problem with always being right.

So the question is, what do I need to do to show her the way back so she can figure out she wants to? Do I just continue what I'm doing? GAL, continue to do the things at home I've always done, continue to give her opportunities to do things with family and me individually? See, its like there are many times the last month or so where I'd ask her if she wanted to do something and she'd refuse, but I got the impression she refused, not because she didn't want to do it, but more because she's afraid she'll have a good time with me and that would just make her have to face her demons even more and it's just easier to hang onto the martial rewrite than actually enjoy herself with me and face the fact that she F'd up.

Ok, I know this has been rambling. But it's amazing Pup that I've been having these very thoughts the last week or so.

Advise on my path forward?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4U,

Somehow, you have to show her you're vulnerable too.

And that -- if she comes back to you -- you will FORGIVE her, and not take her affair and "lord it over" her for all eternity.

In your marriage (pre-affair), do you think she perceives you as a forgiving person? What have you done or said SINCE the affair to let her know (and believe) that you can forgive her?

Do you believe YOURSELF that you can forgive her and get past her adultery?

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Thanks Pup.

I'll have to think on how I can show her I'm vulnerable also. I've thought a lot about how I could express to her that I'm taking a huge risk also by being willing to work on this marriage given that I'll ALWAYS have that little doubt in my mind even if we both fully recover, but there hasn't been a chance for it to come up in conversation.

Does she think I'll "lord it over" her for all eternity? Possibly. I know she hates it that she thinks I'm always right. Even though I'm not an engineer, I have that kind of mind. I think things through to their logical conclusion before saying anything. So if I say something, I've thought it through and am probably "right" about it. She is more of a feelings kind of person and thinks that way. So is this where she gets the feeling I'll always rub it in her face? Maybe. But given what I write next, there's not really evidence of it.

Pre-A I've shown her on many occasions that I'm a forgiving person. Take her STD for example. She never told me she had it until we'd been married for probably 10 years. She would just withhold sex for 2-3 weeks when she had an outbreak. It really started to affect our marriage because she would just say she wasn't in the mood or was tired and I took it as rejection. I mean, I get people aren't in the mood or tired sometimes, but when we averaged ML 3-4 times a week and then she would withhold for 2-3 weeks, I began to think there was something wrong in our marriage. When she finally told me about it she was convinced I was going to kick her out (that's where she's come up with the 'I looked at our finances years ago to see if I could afford to live on my own because I've been so unhappy' comment now to justify her unhappiness which led to the affair) but I was actually relieved that there was a reason for the draught's and I told her it didn't matter to me, I LOVE YOU and I'm not going to be with anyone else the rest of my life, so who cares. And then shortly after I discovered she'd passed it on to me. But I never again mentioned the STD to her. If she had an outbreak (which only happened once a year or so after revealing it to me) she would just say, "it's not a good time" and I would say, Ok, let me know when things are clear.

WW has also had some past experiences, done some things that most people would have trouble with and I've never let it bother me because I LOVE HER and what is past is past and I've never held those things against her. Heck, when we first got together she told me one of the things she loved about me was that I didn't hold those things over her and repeatedly bring them up when we'd have disagreements like her previous long term boyfriend had.


Since I discovered the affair, I've told her on many occasions that I can forgive the affair because I know how these things can happen, but she's going to have to show me that she's worthy of that forgivness by taking responsibility for her actions and not just me being blamed for causing her to have an affair (which she sticks to although it's been a couple months since she openly brought those marital issues up in defense of her Affair).

Can I forgive her? Yes. Can I get past her adultery? Yes. I told her at least 3 times after d-day that I haven't judged her for the affair, and I really haven't because I know how these things happen without you knowing before it's too late to turn back, but not if she doesn't take responsibility for her portion. I've stressed many times I take responsibility for the things that she's said I've done that led her to feeling vulnerable to having an affair and am working on those things everyday, but if she's not willing to face up to the fact that an affair is NEVER acceptable and show me some genuine remorse, even if you're unhappy in the marriage, I'm not sure I could ever forgive her.

I hope we're getting there. Like I've mentioned a lot the last couple days, the snappy times are fewer and further between and the good times are more and more. Just hope she figures out I'm not the enemy and will begin to open up to me soon. This is really getting wearisome to the soul.

[LL44]

Just hope she figures out I'm not the enemy and will begin to open up to me soon. This is really getting wearisome to the soul.

It is exhausting to be the 'enemy'. You are doing so great. You know, after reading your post about forgiveness and things you said after the A (that you can get past it, see how it happened, etc), I realized while I told him some of the same things, I would *always* end it with "This will always be devastating to me" or "I will always be affected by this affair". Wow. I bet H saw I might never let it go, or would always hold it over his head.

Sorry for the hijack, but your post was very thought provoking. You are an amazing person.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4U,

OK, fair enough. I can't argue with ANY of that. You seem to have played it right down the line. I guess the ball remains in her court. Even if she DOES come back to you, you're going to have some serious issues of TRUST with which you're going to have to deal. From not disclosing her STD for 10 years to this affair . . . man, o man.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Thanks for the compliment LWB.

And you're right Pup. She told me when she finally revealed the STD that she knew she had something, but didn't really know what it was because she just kind of ignored it. Do I believe her with that explaination? Yes. Does it show an avoidance of conflict or a tendency to avoid difficult situations in life? Yes again and recovering from this affair is exactly the type of thing that I feel like WW may just think it's easier to chuck it all than go through the difficult process to repair.

And that's what scares me. That she would rather start over than go through what it will take to make it work. Hence her comment a couple months ago "you're going to just have to get over it".

[Hope4us]

Not much to say on the home front. WW was pretty decent yesterday, talkative most of the day....

But what is it with waywards that they can't share even the most basic info with you? Later in the afternoon DS16 came downstairs and said "I know you're both off work tomorrow...." and I looked at WW and said "I didn't know you were on vacation tomorrow" and she said (in a voice that's hard to explain, not sarcastic, not angry, but not normal), "I took the whole week off". What would be the harm in telling me that? There have been a number of opportunities to share that with me over the weekend, but no....

DS19 and his friend went to the concert last night. I was going to drive them back to school when they got home and then stay the night with him and come home today, but he TM'd me at 12:30 and said they were just leaving the concert and thought they'd spend the night at home and we could just leave early today so they could both make their 8:00 am classes. A few minutes later WW rolled over from her couch-bed and said in a really snappy voice "are they about home"? I told her they just left and why didn't she just go upstairs and sleep and I'd sleep on the couch when they got home. She turned over in a huff and then about 2 minutes later got up, slamming stuff around and went upstairs. It's just amazing how self-absorbed waywards are. Man, they're college kids having a good time, you don't have to work tomorrow so you can sleep all you want and all you can think about is how they're affecting YOU.

Just another thing to think about while I consider if I even want to try to make this work.

Anyway, we got up at 5:00 and drove back to school in time for their classes. I'm now in my son's dorm room waiting for him to get back from class so we can go get a cup of coffee or some breakfast/lunch and spend some more quality time together. The more time I spend with the boys without WW around, the more I begin to think we'd be better off without her.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4U,

Was your wife this charming and likeable (sic) BEFORE her affair?

Puppy

[Hope4us]

You make me smile Pup. No, this is so totally out of character for her it's just amazing. Heck, I was always the one that got upset if either of the kids weren't home when they said they'd be and WW was always the understanding one.

So I get home from taking DS19 and friend back to school and WW is laying in the sun. I go out on the deck to get some sun also and begin to read my book. About 15 minutes later she becomes the most talkative she's been in 8 months. Even more so than the night a couple weeks ago. It's just amazing what a different person she is when she's not at work. It's either the triggers from being there, her hating her job or a combo of both. I just wish she'd take me up on relocating back to our hometown, but she's not interested right now.

Right now she's actually upstairs showering so she can....get this....go with DS16 and I to get DS16 a new cell phone and then stop at the store for a few groceries! Man, two times in 3 days that she's going to go somewhere with me! I'm on cloud nine! Just kidding, but it is nice for her to start doing some things with me and the kids. And she's being more and more talkative.

One thing I saw did concern me. I saw where she had done a google search for a local attorney. Uh oh I thought. So I looked the lady up and she's a DUI/DWI and wills/estate attorney. So either WW got a DUI (which she hasn't or maybe OM did, the alcoholic he is according to OMW, he's had at least two prior DUI's, nice huh?) or she's going to get a will done. She's always told me she wanted to get a will together, but it's one of those things we've never done. She probably wants to make sure I don't get any of her money if she dies!

Oh well. I'm just going to enjoy having the conversation and nice times with her. And boy oh boy did she look good in that tiny bikini. It's been almost 10 months and I'm ready to bust!

[Hope4us]

Thought I would post an update for the rest of yesterday evening.

We went shopping for the cell phone and then a few groceries and then went home and grilled out. It was as normal of a day as you can have getting through this crap. Like I mentioned above, this was the absolute best day we've had in 8 months. If you didn't know something was wrong, you'd never have known.

Progress? I hope so. I just hope it's not WW thinking that she can have a "normal" life the next couple years while sleeping on the couch, saving her money for her exit and enjoying DS16's last few years at home.

But I know for us to make progress, we'll need a lot more days like this before she can see what a mistake the affair was.

Yesterday she was talking about more things in the future, like when her current cell contract is up in Oct what phone she's going to get, etc. Makes me think she's thinking of the future with us, but again, not sure in what capacity at this point.

Oh, and she shared one more bit of info that is potentially GREAT NEWS. WW told me yesterday that the enabler GF may be out of a job soon. She's a contractor working on a project that when the project is complete she may be done with the company. WW said the enabler really needs a full time job because she needs the benefits and if our company doesn't hire her full time she'll need to go elsewhere. WOOHOO. I really don't think the company will hire her full time. If it was my department, I wouldn't. That would be FANTASTIC. Get that bad influence out of WW's daily life. Of course, I played the simpathetic, caring spouse and said "that would be too bad if she had to go elsewhere", but inside I was ready to burst out laughing!

WW is on vacation the rest of the week. We'll see if her attitude stays the same and then how it is when she goes back to work next week. Might be time to bring up again how this job is affecting our marriage and what could we possibly do to change that.

Seems like more baby steps. I'm not going to get too high because the fall is too hard, but I'm hopeful she's turning the corner. At least with the weeks vacation, if she still emails/IM's OM from work, there will be a week and a half of NC. Of course I'll be checking the cell bill to make sure that's true, but all in all, we seem to be making some small progress. Just hope it keeps going.