Well thanks for the input everyone. I was driving to work today and had a thought on this. The whole intimacy issues I think are her way of being incontrol. She knows that I REALLY enjoy this and that it is probably my favorite thing on the planet to do. If she can stop it or be incontol of it then she is holding the cards.
Yesterday in the argument I remeber asking her if she is not in the mood she doesnt enjoy it at all. She said no she doesnt. I remeber back a little while her telling me the exact opposite. That when she is not in the mood but I can get her going by what ever she really enjoys it. I think the above statement is a way of keeping control and safe. She has something to hang over my head.
So here is the plan of action. Do a 180 for me I need to act as if I dont want it or need it. Be as happy as possible when Im around her. What I think that will do is allow her to open up more and become more sopntanous(sp).
Here is the thing Im going to ask you women is wanting to make love at least 3 times a week to much? I personally think that is pretty fare. Let me know what you think.
Pre-bomb 3x a week would have been too much. I felt that H would come home and want sex, while I was exhausted from dealing with the kids, cooking dinner, etc, all without any help (this is how I perceived it all). It just felt like one more thing someone wanted from me, one more thing I had to do. It was like an obligation and honestly, a lot of the fun had gone out of it for me. So 3x a week would have been 2-3 too many!
At the bomb, so much in my mind and way of thinking changed. I now see sex as fun and a way for us to connect, and not just another thing to do. Now 3x + a week is acceptable. It is so much a mind thing, at least for me it was.
I think that is the same way with my W. All she needs to do is just do it and have an open mind and I know that it will be enjoyable. Yet she has decided that there is no way that anything can help her with this or that this is my problem. Which is how I really think that she thinks.
IMHO, it sounds like your W is still a bit in WA-mode (hopefully on the tail-end). She's staying out late, doing stuff with 20-something, telling you you're controlling, not examining your needs (for you and as a couple). I imagine the best thing you can do right now is expect nothing, do that 180 you're talking about, and don't bring up the sex thing. It's likely perceived as pressure...
I know it bites...especially when one has a libido like yours. I'm the same way, frankly, and have a difficult time waiting two days in between. So, I fully understand you're "pressure," so to speak.
Maybe try and take it down a notch, Lee, and see what happens. Good luck.
I truly feel your frustration on this one. with that being said, i'm going to be very honest w/you:
Your posts all are going in the same direction. It appears you are falling into the cheeseless tunnel theory. You know what you have to do, you have said several times that the 180 is to not initiate intimacy, but then something happens and you can not do that. This sets the whole thing in motion. For the 180 to work, you need to hold true to it otherwise its the same trap. I know its frustrating w/no intimacy, really i do, but you need to find a way not to initiate, not to talk about it.....otherwise, it's just the cheeseless tunnel theory!!!!!
i know you can do it, that's what got you from newcomers to piecing....do it again and i'm sure you'll have the same effects on her!!!!
((((Lee))))) Sorry you're having such a tough time with all this. I think you're right about the 180, and you can do this. You did it before, and it had an effect on your W for sure. don't beat yourself up about your argument. We are only human. Just learn from it and go on from here. Have you re-thought your goals at this new stage? I sound like a broken record, but it really helps me when things change in my sitch. as far as the frequency, personally I think 2-3 times a week is reasonable. I also feel that for many women, if there is stress in other areas, or is she doesn't feel loved and cared for or close to her partner, then sex isn't fun. Your W said she didn't feel you were respecting her feelings. This may be just talk and anger directed at you inappropriately, but how could you show her that you're willing to do this? IMHO it's also important to try and vent your frustration with this somehow, so you don't vent it at your W. Can you get some time to yourself? To do something to take care of you? One more thing - I agree that it's probably not best to make a decision about your M while you're so frustrated. Sorry this is going on. Would reading your old threads help? To see how far you've come? This is tough. I'm pulling for you. Hang in there~
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
I've been saying all along that you oughtta pull a 180 of some kind on the intamacy thing. It does seem like you're heading into cheeseless tunnel territory on a lot of this. Watch out that going down the cheeseless tunnels regarding the intamacy issue isn't leading you down cheeseless tunnels with other aspects of the R as well so you don't find yourself in the same world of trouble you were in before.
I know intamacy is important and I know it's probably a big part of your LL, but something isn't working and you seem to get more frustrated by it rather than looking for creative solutions. Have you read SSM yet? If not you should give it a read. Maybe now isn't the time to let your W read it but at least it might help you understand where she's coming from.
Anyways, I think the 180 of laying off and acting like you don't care about it is a great experiment to try. Remember, pressure didn't get your W back to you, and pressure won't get her to be intimate with you either.
A dream it's true
But I'd see it through
If I could be
Wasting my time with you
-Band:Phish Song:Waste
Thanks you all you are all right i have to get off of my frustration. It is so very tough becuase for me if I am being intimate with my partner it make every other part of my relationship better. It makes me so much more easy to get along with and just more mellow. I dont know why but I think it is because I feel loved by my partner. Really after intimacy Im just about willing to do anything for my W. Anyway I am doing the act as if I dont care and see where that gets me.
