Worse before Better?

[forward]

Sophie,
my H filed and I am thinking it is better this way, because now he's going to have to face reality.

I too tried to be nice and got the melodramatic "No, no--don't get your hopes up for me" type of deal. OK. Think "Last Resort" technique from the book.

At this point, I am actually glad he filed because it means that he will be taking on more financial responsibility. I am exhausted and, like you, find myself getting quite tired being a parent of a very small child while H daydreams around and shows up when he feels like it. I am hoping that the preliminary hearing will make it crystal clear to H what D is really going to mean.

As far as D, I'm currently staying open to R but not sure if that will last.

Bottom line is that our H's have lots of growing up to do. I blame myself partly.

[Sophie]

Hi Breton..

"Bottom line is that our H's have lots of growing up to do. I blame myself partly. "

It does seem like my H is living/treating us like he is somewhere between MY brother and the teenage brother of our kids.

I too am partly to blame...for the things that led to him crossing the line into his A.

I was enjoying reconnecting and being his friend for the last two montsh, but when he blantently disprected everything about me and my feelings by plotting to ignore Mother's Day and my birthday...I just can't be friendly when someone will deliberately hurt me like that. I have come a long way in how I live my own life, and how I respect his...and I was not to blame for him snubbing me on my birthday.

I haven't heard from him since May 15th when I told him he really hurt me. He doesn't apologize but he says 'I didn't mean to.... WTF?

I don't know if he is off thinking about where he is headed, how he is living, numbing with work and alcohol or if I'm going to get 'attacked' from behind with D papers.

My H, and his parents, avoid confrontation at all costs. Our problems stemmed from that, communication and I had no idea the extent of his unhappiness before the A began.

H had asked me if I was happy....I was struggling with things, probably my own MLC...but I wasn't so unhappy to hurt his feelings by saying I wasn't when I knew my blues were not becasue of him. I said I was happy....and he throws that in my face every time it comes up that he walked out. He is angry with me for being happy in our marriage! He has wanted me to agree that we failed...that we just didn't work out. I don't agree, and he gets mad and shuts down.

Maybe, I should agree next time????You think?

[Creed]

Hi again Sophie

I'm going to suggest something to you that will go against everything that you're feeling and thinking right now...but I promise you, it's very important that you start doing it right now, before you make any decision.

There is a lot of resentment in your posts..about moving FOR him, losing out on your own dreams/goals FOR him, etc. etc.
If you want to make wise decisions in the future...you can not do that with all the resentment that you're dealing with...it will fuel a fire that will only come back and 'burn' you.

Do you have the right to feel resentful?? You bet!!! But either reconciling or divorce..resentment will only cloud the decisions and actions you make/do. You have to accept that your H has become someone you don't even like at this point. That doesn't mean you don't still love him...but you don't know him, like him or respect him . He can no more 'fix' the way you feel than you can 'fix' his problems for him. So holding resentment towards him does absolutely no good at all..it only harms you, and could cloud the decisions you may make.

Please...try to accept that what he's done, he's done. You can't go back in the past. What is important now? How much can you forgive...how much do you want to forgive? That doesn't mean you have to forgive him...you don't...but if you want peace in your own life, you will eventually have to forgive him for all the things he's done/doing.

I think you've already answered alot of questions yourself. Like the ones about how he can treat the kids and you the way he does/has. Any normal, sane, just unhappy with marriage, want a divorce type of man wouldn't let that come between himself and his children. So..you already know that this isn't just about you and the marriage, right?

So many of us here have had our WAS treat our kids just as your H is treating yours. It's nothing new, it's nothing just special in your situation. We all know too well how this works...so please feel like a full-fledged member of this club!! LOL

I also understand what you mean about things just being more peaceful and smoother if he keeps away. As much as you want the old H back, you know this man isn't the man you remember...and it just makes things easier and less hurtful if he isn't around to remind you what a jerk he's become. This is you learning to let go of the rope...which is good for your wellbeing.

As far as Mothers Day , birthdays, anniversaries, etc. Dont expect them to be like they were in years past...they won't be. Not unless/until he makes this MLC journey all the way through. I, like others here, have felt the same pain when ignored on these and other special occasions. If this is the way he likes things, then don't do anything special on his days...and certainly don't expect him to return any special favors you've extended to him. he's not capable of that either.

Right now, everything is about him..him..him..him.

Avoiding confrontation in Hs family. Oh...do I know that one well! It also had a lot to do with the poor communication styles my xh and I had. I never understood why he wouldn't give his own opinion...or thought he always agreed with me, because he never told me different ..... that is until he decided he wanted to split...then I heard about every little thing I had done/decided/said wrong ALL the way back to when we were dating in the 70s. LOL And believe me....everything will be YOUR FAULT, because...well, just because.....

I do think it would be wise to get a financial agreement in the works. This is not to be mistaken as the first step to a divorce. This is to set in place boundaries that he cannot ignore or step over. If you decide to talk to a lawyer, explain the situation to them, letting them know that you do not want to take the first step..but you do want some type of safety net, as your H has proved that he is not responsible in paying bills, helping support the kids needs, etc. Remember...he can also affect your credit rating if he ever decided to go on a spending spree to try to make himself feel better..especially if depression/alcohol is involved.

The most important thing I can say, is that if faith is important to you...to lean on it now, more than ever. To accept that you are not the one that will be able to 'fix' things, that your H needs things inside of him fixed that only God can do..and then you need to let it go...and that means the resentment and anger. It won't happen all at once, but each day it will get easier. Especially once you start looking at him in a different light...a light that lets you see that this is hugely about him, and very little to do about you or the marriage.

Don't beg, plead or give ultimatums. Pray alot, live your life for your kids and yourself...and let the legal system deal with your Hs financials if that's the route you need to take.

[Between Tears]

Wow Creed, I wish I had written this post, or had at least be able to!

You go girl!

Sophie, what Creed has written is invaluable to those who are finding themselves here... what she has written is the way to survive and move on from the past towards a happier future.

Laughing

[Sophie]

Whew, Creed. I have three times already...your words. They are really helping. I'll get my words together and reply.

My resentment comes and goes...it's back right now becasue of how he hurt me, in a calculated way, on my birthday.

If he wants me to make it easy for him to at the very least, be with the kids, why would he treat me in such a disrespectful and hurtful way?

Sometimes, my brain tells me he must be hurting really bad himself to hurt me that way.

Other times my brain tells me he thinks very little of me.

It's a battle.

I am a forgiving person...but, he really doesn't want me to forgive him for anything....now. If the word forgive comes up, he recoils because if there were things to forgive, then he would have done something wrong. He can't admit any wrong doing unprovoked....yet.

I do believe his actions are much, much more about him than me or our marriage. It's just hard to hold on to that sometimes. I come here now, I don't go to him.

I think I've worn a couple of my face 2 face friend out!!

It feels like I'm giving an ultimatum at the mention of mediation, legal...anything legal. So, I guess I 'just do it'...and don't just say it.

Gotta think some more about your words.....

[Creed]

Sophie

I don't know if I can word this right..but I'll try.

You are a reminder to him...the kids are a reminder to him...not of something he wants to neglect or hurt...but a reminder of the person he is (or as he sees himself right now) This is a time of monumental dissatisfaction with HIMSELF. But when he sees you or the kids, he can't help but reminded of how he feels he's not only failed you all in some way (not that he has, but he sees that he has)..and even more important, how he's failed HIMSELF. See..we're right back to HIM, HIM, HIM.

Most of us take our WAS MLC way too personal. We're putting too much importance on ourselves and our families..and it's got very little precious to do with us. THIS is why he's hurting and neglecting you, but he sees it as only protecting or nurturing his own crippled little psyche. He's not thinking/feeling like a normal, healthy personality. The depression, thinking of your brother...these are all arrows to show you that he's doing some deep, deep thinking...and once again, it's about himself and his life and his fate...and nothing really to do with you. That doesn't mean that you and the kids won't be damaged by the fallout of his MLC..you are and will be...that's a given..unless you don't give a stitch about him, and I know that's not true!

This is why you have to concentrate on yourself and the kids. Concentrating on how hes been acting, what he's been doing,..over analyzing everything about his actions and words..(or inactions and words), will only serve to drive you bonkers, and will solve nothing and give you no solid answers to the questions you're asking.

You can't..you just can't expect him to act like he should. Doesn't mean you shouldn't want him to, but don't expect him to. The only thing you should expect of him is to take care of his share of the responsibilities. And you may have and extremely hard time to get him to do that little bit of 'dealing with reality'. It sounds easier than it is.

Of course he has done nothing to ask your forgiveness for!! LOL His actions have no consequences, or at least in his mind they shouldn't. He wants the life of someone much younger and less responsible. He wants to be able to feel free of any obligations other than what he feels he wants to deal with. He can not deal with things the same way a normal person does. He may feel that he's the only that has held the family together...emotionally and financially. Of course, you know this isn't true, but he's looking through completely different eyes than you are...and his are very warped right now. For you to mention to him that 'you forgive him', is like you slapping him in the face with 'you did me wrong'..and believe me, right now, he probably thinks that you're the only one that has done anyone wrong, and it was HIM that was wronged. Again...it's about HIM, HIM, HIM. You have to take yourself out of the equation.

Now..the part that gets me the most upset, is how the kids are affected by all of this. Mine were young adults, but it still has left a negative imprint on their lives. That's why it's very important that you make their lives as normal and full as you possibly can, and don't get your hopes up that your H will be there for you/them other than the bare minimum. Yes, it's selfish of him, and it's hurtful to them and you...but again, it's the only way that he can seem to live day to day.

I do feel sorry for my XH. I don't excuse him for the things he's done to this family, our marriage, the loss of our home, etc. But I do understand there are several different things that came into play that allowed such a thing to happen. And I've accepted that. Everyday I fight down the urge to feel resentful towards him, especially when I think he's living the high life while I struggle. But I'm just beginning to see and understand that what we 'assume' is usually not that close to the truth. So fight that resentment each and everyday, because it will come at you, each and everyday. Pretty soon, you'll see that it gets much easier to do. You'll just be able to sigh, shake your head in disbelief, and then remember that you've gotten much stronger and much more sure of yourself through all of this...and that is something NO ONE can take away from you. Your kids will see you as loving, caring and forgiving. They will see you biting your tongue when you'd much rather be cussing a blue streak..they will respect you without ever telling you how much..and they will be extremely proud of you as they become older and start to realize all that you managed to get through on your own.

They will always love their father, but that doesn't mean that they understand or like how he's been living and treating them. It's up to you to try to explain, without excusing your H, that their dad loves them very much, but right now in his life, his actions aren't showing it. And let them know that some day he will come to them, and he will ask them to forgive him..I'm sure he will. But it might be quite awhile, and quite a rollercoaster ride before he reaches that point.

You can't make it go any faster, you can't try to analyze why it's happened, or why he can't just 'fix' himself. We've all thought those same thoughts, and in the end, it's always the same

We just can't. You have to accept the present for what it is now, tuck away what the past use to be, and work towards and pray for a better and more loving future for you, your family, and if you decide to hang on, your husband.

Oh...and by the way, I'm sure you already know this...the affair didn't mean piddlysquat. So never let that affect your own self esteem and ego. It's something that happens more often than not with MLCers...because its all about THEM. We're not their biggest concern right now...they themselves are, and thats a fact.

[momof2girls]

Hi Sophie,
creed said everything I was going to say to you! Of course you are resentful and you sound exactly like me with the "HOW's and WHY's" of the entire situation.

You may never know why he doesn't see the kids...why he doesn't feel the need...it may be because he is selfish or he is so guilty that being around is family is causing him anger. NOW, he will not admit that he is guilty, he may not even realize it but you are a reminder of happy times.

My H and I were S six months, not a long time as many on this board will tell you. I think my H's MLC started with the birth of our second D. I had no idea...H was acting fine, we lead very busy lives so our M did not come first.

We had gone on a weekend vacation with my oldest D and neice...H did not say two words all the way there. That night I asked him what was wrong and he said he wasn't happy. That was it, we came home the next day and he left.

This was the week before Christmas. Within two weeks, after snooping (ugh) I found out about A. I think it was fairly new...going on maybe a couple of weeks before he left. I think the guilt of the A got to him so much that he had to leave.

Then he turned nasty, If you read my post you can see all the obnoxious things he did. He moved in with OW immediately...The only thing I thank him for to this day is never bringing my girls around her.

I agree with you! I found it so much easier when H didn't call, I used to me mad at him but then I realized that I could do nothing about it. Unfortunately, my MIL babysits one day a week for me so she would fill H in on the goings-on with the kids.

I started counseling immediately after H left, even before I found this site. My C was reality based and helped me right way understand that it takes two to make or break a M. I realized my part of the problem...not paying enough attention to us, not communicating...

This still does not justify that H could go and have an A. Anyway, I got served 3/07...we had only been S for four months. H was on a fast moving steam train to get our D over with! After I panicked for a few days I realized that I was doing it alone now, I could continue to do it alone and I would be fine.

We went to our 4-way L meeting 6/1/07 (ugh...a year ago today!) and I treated H like a business meeting. I put my foot down to things I did not want and I fought for things I needed. Believe it or not I didn't cry, not at all...until I got by myself in the car.

Rewind for a minute...(I am a rambler, sorry!) A few weeks before court I asked H to meet with me to discuss some minor settlement issues before court. H told me no, so I dropped it.( this is a 180 for me because I question, question, question)
The Tuesday before court H called and said he would come over to discuss things with me. I was shocked but said ok. Talk about a Oscar winning performance! I had a list and I went down it one by one. If we started to argue we would go on to the next.

I did start to cry, couldn't help it. I just told h that I had accepted the fact that he wanted a D, I didn't, but I could not do anything about it. I told him I was sad for my family, and me because I liked being married to him.

Looking back now I remember H hesitating before he left the house. Like he wanted to say something and couldn't. about a week after court, did not hear from him at all...H showed up at D5's tball game. H said hi and started a conversation with me. He said he needed to talk to me. I told him anything that had to do with the settlement could be discussed with the L's. H said it had nothing to do with the settlement that he thought this M could work.

I was speechless...I asked him to please drive the girls home after the game and I left. I was in such shock and at that point I had been used to doing it alone, I was enjoying GAL and was ready to get this all behind me and start fresh.

H came over that night and we talked....actually I let him do all the talking. (as you can see, I talk and write ALOT) I told him trust for me was now a huge issue. H said he saw me going down a really good path in life and he felt he wasn't. H said he was screwed up for months and lived a "party" life style...

So today we are back together...we dated all last summer and went to weekly MC. H was all for it, when he first left he said he didn't need it...I did. Typical MLC.

So even though we were S only six months he did everything everyone else does really fast.

I will write more later...kids are up!

[momof2girls]

Hi Sophie,
creed said everything I was going to say to you! Of course you are resentful and you sound exactly like me with the "HOW's and WHY's" of the entire situation.

You may never know why he doesn't see the kids...why he doesn't feel the need...it may be because he is selfish or he is so guilty that being around is family is causing him anger. NOW, he will not admit that he is guilty, he may not even realize it but you are a reminder of happy times.

My H and I were S six months, not a long time as many on this board will tell you. I think my H's MLC started with the birth of our second D. I had no idea...H was acting fine, we lead very busy lives so our M did not come first.

We had gone on a weekend vacation with my oldest D and neice...H did not say two words all the way there. That night I asked him what was wrong and he said he wasn't happy. That was it, we came home the next day and he left.

This was the week before Christmas. Within two weeks, after snooping (ugh) I found out about A. I think it was fairly new...going on maybe a couple of weeks before he left. I think the guilt of the A got to him so much that he had to leave.

Then he turned nasty, If you read my post you can see all the obnoxious things he did. He moved in with OW immediately...The only thing I thank him for to this day is never bringing my girls around her.

I agree with you! I found it so much easier when H didn't call, I used to me mad at him but then I realized that I could do nothing about it. Unfortunately, my MIL babysits one day a week for me so she would fill H in on the goings-on with the kids.

I started counseling immediately after H left, even before I found this site. My C was reality based and helped me right way understand that it takes two to make or break a M. I realized my part of the problem...not paying enough attention to us, not communicating...

This still does not justify that H could go and have an A. Anyway, I got served 3/07...we had only been S for four months. H was on a fast moving steam train to get our D over with! After I panicked for a few days I realized that I was doing it alone now, I could continue to do it alone and I would be fine.

We went to our 4-way L meeting 6/1/07 (ugh...a year ago today!) and I treated H like a business meeting. I put my foot down to things I did not want and I fought for things I needed. Believe it or not I didn't cry, not at all...until I got by myself in the car.

Rewind for a minute...(I am a rambler, sorry!) A few weeks before court I asked H to meet with me to discuss some minor settlement issues before court. H told me no, so I dropped it.( this is a 180 for me because I question, question, question)
The Tuesday before court H called and said he would come over to discuss things with me. I was shocked but said ok. Talk about a Oscar winning performance! I had a list and I went down it one by one. If we started to argue we would go on to the next.

I did start to cry, couldn't help it. I just told h that I had accepted the fact that he wanted a D, I didn't, but I could not do anything about it. I told him I was sad for my family, and me because I liked being married to him.

Looking back now I remember H hesitating before he left the house. Like he wanted to say something and couldn't. about a week after court, did not hear from him at all...H showed up at D5's tball game. H said hi and started a conversation with me. He said he needed to talk to me. I told him anything that had to do with the settlement could be discussed with the L's. H said it had nothing to do with the settlement that he thought this M could work.

I was speechless...I asked him to please drive the girls home after the game and I left. I was in such shock and at that point I had been used to doing it alone, I was enjoying GAL and was ready to get this all behind me and start fresh.

H came over that night and we talked....actually I let him do all the talking. (as you can see, I talk and write ALOT) I told him trust for me was now a huge issue. H said he saw me going down a really good path in life and he felt he wasn't. H said he was screwed up for months and lived a "party" life style...

So today we are back together...we dated all last summer and went to weekly MC. H was all for it, when he first left he said he didn't need it...I did. Typical MLC.

So even though we were S only six months he did everything everyone else does really fast.

I will write more later...kids are up!

[Creed]

momof2girls

Don't mean to hijack this thread from Sophies , but it tickled me to see that you 'question, question, question'. LMAO Ohhh...that describes the old me to a tee!! I guess I'm probably still that way a little towards my two grown boys, and wanting to know whats going on in their lives.

I remember my xh, and a counselor both telling me I would be a good detective or 'interrogator' because I was excellent in the 'questioning' dept. , and eventually found out every little detail I was after.

Nowadays, I've learned that unless interrogating is part of a job description I'm getting paid for, it doesn't belong in personal relationships.

I'm glad your life is coming together the way it is..it's always wonderful to hear/read about events like that.

[Sophie]

Creed and Momof2...

My H said I should be a lawyer!!! He says I question, and trick him into answering and believing things!!

Shoot....I give a ton, you know, way too much, thought into everything that by the time I get around him, my questions are pretty well set, logged in order...and I have questions for the answers I'm 'sure' he is going to give. <<Cringe>>

I do find that letting go of the need to find out, interrogate, get information is freeing. My brain is jammed packed with stuff, that now it's okay not to pack more in there!

I also find that my H and I have these long question/answer periods...well honestly it's question....watch him think....watch him think....start to ask another but WAIT! He took a breath....nope...thought he was going to say something...but, nothing came out....so watch him think some more....I don't want to talk anymore because I don't want to watch him just think.

But, what I was going to say, is that the few things that he does say I cling to as etched in stone, the gospel, he REALLY means it.

I dwell on those words, I try to figure out what the heck he meant or where he was coming from only to find out 2-6 weeks later....he tells me he never said any such thing.