Where do...I...go from here?

[sgctxok]

Hi T,
I think what Sg means is that you should treat him as if he is not in a crisis. Treat him as you would a "friend". If he says weird things or tries to bait you just let it roll off your shoulders...bite your tongue until you can vent here.

YES! This and MORE! Do not worry about the 'stages' etc. Just use those things when you are overwhelmed and 'need to understand' where he is. Those things should not help you make decisions as to how to act.

(I've seen too many people set too many ultimatums, or just go off on their own, ignoring skills they should be building and then letting their marriages die.)

DB him using all of the DB techniques as appropriate. Build your communication skills and REAL GIVING (see thread at top of forum)skills.

for example

Vary the When,
The Medium is the Message
Easier Done than Said


for more see Divorce Remedy or search this site.

[tpaschal]

Went to court yesterday. L quit. Was friendly to me, but wouldn't even consider staying on the case. Probably just as well, as I saw once again yesterday how many details L has let fall through the cracks.

But hiring someone else will be a huge money problem.

All the motions that were supposed to be heard before the court yesterday have been postponed, but one thing that was supposed to be heard was a motion for H to have to pay my interim attorney's fees. Well, if the motion wasn't heard because I have no lawyer, then how can I get money to hire a lawyer to plead the motion? It's a Catch-22.

Found one guy (through a friend--I can't thank her enough) who will probably go with me to have that motion heard in a few weeks, then if I get the money I can pay him for his services that day and then decide if I want to hire him full time or go with someone else.

Need to make a lot of phone calls.

H's L did try to ask that the final court date (August 4) not be postponed even though I need to find a new lawyer. Judge would not rule on that, thank you, God!

Afterwards H and I were parked near each other and walked together to the parking lot. H got pissy, saying I had just cost him another $2000 because he didn't need to take off work to be there, and his lawyer hadn't even needed to come if everything was just going to be postponed. Ranted a little that this should have been done and finished 6 months ago.

<urg>


Got to run for now. Will update the rest in a bit.

Anyone know any good lawyers in Texas? <sigh>

[cat03]

hey there, wow, how difficult, my prayers your way! hope you find a good L.

He just kept saying that we weren't right for each other. Said that I kept going back to my "old ways." (I do get defensive when criticized.)

at the danger of insulting our good DB men here, most man are deadly afraid of failure, your H is afraid things wont' work (my stbx ALWAYs used to say when he was with me right before he left "what if i dont' get my feelings back?' what if this doesnt' work?" of course it didn't work with that kind of attitude!

I was also told the same thing "we are not compatible" HA, after 13yrs, turns out we are not compatible. I DON'T buy it, neither should you. Both him and we were totally ignorant about how to treat each other, how to nurture our M. We had a chance to do it but stbx checked out (add to that adhd/depression and the obsession of the ow) and of course, our M didnt' have much of a fighting chance.

[tpaschal]

So, it's been a difficult week. A difficult two weeks. (Well, hell, it's been a crappy year, but I'll just concentrate on the last few days for now!!!)

Went to court last week, supposed to be for motion for H to pay interim attorney's fees, but L withdrew from case, so all got postponed. H was nasty afterwards, blaming me, his mom, and D14 for everything under the sun. Threatened (as he does periodically) to get nasty in court, to let his lawyer rip me to shreds, etc., etc. Got this email from H the next day. Pretty sure it was at instigation of OW (and written by her, too, as this is NOT H's typical email writing style---pretty sure she writes most of his emails for him nowadays.)

******************************
TPaschal,

In thinking back to our conversation yesterday I realize I probably made it sound like I'm going to throw you and the children to the wolves. I hope you know I would never do that. I have been willing to be very generous this whole time and still am. However the money is running out and pretty soon there won't be anything left to be generous with so this has to end now. (Uh huh. And it has nothing to do with the fact that OW is pushing you relentlessly? As for the money running out, that is crap. There hasn't been any money since he flew through all the saving accounts this time last year when he wined and dined the bimbo and furnished his apt. with all brand new stuff. He doesn't want to have to suffer by using his monthly income to pay lawyer's bills. He wants to cash out the retirement accts. to pay the costs. A$$h*l*.)

Mr. So-and-so is a reputable accountant and I have been assured the court will accept his evaluation. He is completely impartial. I know nothing about him except I met his assistant when she came to the office to get all the paperwork. She seemed nice but very professional. His evaluation has already begun and will cost $5000-$7000 alone. If I have to pay for evaluation by two separate accountants I would have to sell the IRA to do so. I don't want to do that because we would pay a 40% tax on that money. (I didn't say I wanted two separate evaluations---in fact, we agreed in our Temporary Orders conference to use one evaluator, we just hadn't agreed on using the one he wanted, because I have no way of knowing if he's got any prior connection to this guy.)

If you will agree to settle:

I am willing to assume all the marital debt except your car loan and the house, which will be resolved by the sale. That's over $120,000 of unsecured debt that will be an elephant off your back. (Every penny of it racked up by him. Took out loans to make two investments, but one investments has tanked and he didn't make the other investment and spent the money instead. Now the loan is due, and he's stuck. His practice had problems in the winter due to the incompetence of the office manager and he didn't get paid for a few months so had to take out a large loan to live on and to pay mine and kids housing expenses. Also, the house and my car were both purchases he INSISTED we make. I was happy in our old house, and though I wanted a new car, I was willing to wait until we had saved up enough to pay cash for it. So his seeming generosity isn't really very generous.)

You can have all the profit from the sale of the house to put a large down-payment on a nice home for you and the kids. Hopefully that will be over _________ even after the Realtors percentage. And I'm still willing to help you out with getting a home loan. (This is the only thing that makes me even want to consider this offer. If the house sells for what the Realtor is suggesting, it would be enough to put a big downpayment on a house, but it wouldn't be enough to cover the entire cost of something in the area where I currently live to keep the kids in their schools. I would still need him to be on the mortgage for at least a little while, according to my friend who is a mortgage loan writer.)

I will pay maximum child support, $1875/month (like he has a choice? Oh, give me a f***ing break!)and we can discuss spousal support for the first 2 years so you can go to school if you wish. (Texas sucks. Spousal support is only available for 3 years, and only for a maximum of $2500 per month, but that's only if the a$$h*l* agrees to it, or the judge can order it. It's not standard.)

The IRA will be transferred into your name, currently holding $___________. (Believe me, it's not much. It was only opened 2 or 3 years ago, and we hadn't concentrated much on building it up yet. If I had to cash it out, it wouldn't even pay the property taxes for the house I live in now, but it MIGHT be enough to pay off the L who quit. And with the economy and the stock market the way it is right now, it's lost 2 or 3 thousand dollars since the beginning of the year. <sigh>)

I will leave the $1 million life insurance policy in place with the children as equal beneficiaries and if something should happen to me the money would be directed by a trustee until they reach the age of 25. (Oh, what a generous guy.)

Please think about these offers and let me know if you're willing to discuss it and any other issues in question.
***********************************

I didn't even answer this email, as I have no legal representation right now and didn't want to make any mistakes. My MIL says I should talk to him about this offer and make a really hardball counter offer, because I can always say no, or say I changed my mind, but I just don't want to screw anything up.

He sent another email two days ago.

*****************************************
TPaschal,

I received papers from Mr. So-and-so's office yesterday requesting a $10,000 retainer fee to perform the evaluation. Nobody mentioned a retainer fee was required, just that it would run $5-7,000. Doubling that to 10k puts me in the same position as paying two accountants - I would have to sell the IRA.
If we settle this now without the evaluation and outside of court there will be some money available for the settlement. I need to get some idea so I can arrange for financing either way.


Is a settlement possible?

H

**************************************

I hadn't answered this one, either, but he wanted to talk about it when he was here to see the kids today. (See the kids? Yeah, right---he shows up unannounced 20 minutes before he knows they will be home, walks in yelling "heeelllo! anybody home?" then wants to talk only about settlement, trying to bully me, I don't think I handled it very well, he got pissy and left about 10 minutes after kids got home, without doing anything with kids.)

So, any thoughts? I know what I'd love to say, but this post is getting awfully long. I'll put it in a separate post.

[tpaschal]

So, what I'd love to say is this....

*******************************************
Dear H,

I am sorry that the accountant's office waited until this late date to inform you that a retainer fee would be required. Have you called any of the other accountants who do business evaluations? Mrs. So-and-so has been mentioned several times as someone in this area who does good work.

I have told you many times throughout the past year that I do not want a divorce. Divorce is messy and expensive and painful, and it is not a "quick fix" for anything. Do not blame me for the financial difficulty in which you now find yourself. You, and only you, made the decision to pursue a divorce. You are the one making these choices, and we are all paying the price.

Though I remain willing to negotiate with you on a settlement, you cannot expect me to answer the question about whether or not an evaluation of the practice is necessary until I have legal representation to advise me. As a wise woman (whose ex-husband returned home after 5 years apart) recently told me, "Keep your heart open to his return if you want, but be business-like when it comes to a divorce. In this matter, he is a stranger and this is a business deal."

If we were strangers negotiating a business deal, you would not expect these concessions from me. Right now I feel bullied and manipulated by you.

You are no longer the same man I married, so NO, I do not know that you would never throw us to the wolves. The man I loved and married, the honest man who valued commitment, loyalty and most of all, integrity, no longer exists. Or, if he does still exist somewhere, he is buried beneath so many layers of anger and guilt and shame that he is no longer accessible. You told me that you were tired of being the good guy and wanted to be "the bad boy" for a while. I'll never forget you coming into the house shortly after you moved out and sitting on the kitchen counter and saying with a hate filled sneer on your face, "Look out world, here comes H!"

You have broken every one of your marriage vows, every promise you ever made to me, and have disrespected me in every way in which a man could possibly disrespect his wife. You were not honest with me about your unhappiness, and then instead of trying to fill the void you felt in a healthy way by pursuing a stronger relationship with God or spending more time with your children, you went looking outside our marriage. You put all of your time and energy into a new relationship without making an honest try to fix the one you were in, or to at least end our marriage before sleeping around. You started an affair with a child---yes, a child---a screwed up, emotionally unstable child---and then continued to have sex with me on a regular basis for several months after you started having sex with her. You began having drunken, violent rages in front of our children, you damaged them emotionally more than you will ever know or acknowledge, and you continue to do so.

I made many mistakes, to be sure, but neither I nor your children deserve the way you are treating us now. I have asked you for a chance to correct those mistakes, asked you for the chance for us to relearn how to communicate, to learn how to bring out the best in each other as we used to do, to get to know each other and fall in love again, but you have refused.

My not wanting a divorce is not a matter of me stubbornly holding onto something that I just don't wish to give up---you, or our family life---rather, I have given this over to God and am convicted by Him on a daily basis that divorce is not His plan or desire for my life or yours, and is most especially not His plan or desire for our children. God has given us free will, though, so He will not stop you if you choose divorce. And if you do go through with a divorce, I know God will still have great things in store for me and the kids in spite of all the pain.

In fact, He is showing me this now. I am convicted by Him that this is a time of change and growth for me. Am I perfect? NO! Do I still screw up and do or say things from a place of fear or anger that I later regret? Of course. Some changes are quicker and easier to make, and others I struggle with on a daily basis. But He is showing me how to go forward with my life while still keeping my heart open with unconditional love for you. He is teaching me to put my faith in Him, not in myself or in any other human being. God is also teaching me patience, which for me is maybe the hardest lesson of all.

These are all hard lessons, and not ones I would have chosen to learn if I had't been put in this situation, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to open myself up to what God wants to teach me.

My life now is not how I pictured it would be, but it will be a good life and I am finding that I do not need you as I once thought I did. I want you in our lives because I still love the true you, but I do not need you in order to have happiness and joy in my life. (The same is not quite true for the children. They will have joy and happiness, yes, but they do need you. They need for their father to be more of a consistent, stable presence in their lives, especially Christopher.)

Though I know that I do want to share my life with someone special, I have discovered that I do not need a man in my life to find joy and happiness and contentment. I've met a few great guys this past year, but I don't NEED to be with anyone to feel fulfilled, and I trust that God will lead me to know when I am truly ready for new love. You told me once not too long ago that you let the bimbo move in with you partly because you discovered you can't be alone. I have discovered the positive aspects of being alone, of learning to be content within myself instead of always looking to someone or something else to "make me happy." I am learning how to be content with what God has blessed me with in the moment, instead of always searching for what else is out there, as you seem to still be doing.
***************************************

I don't know how to finish it. Actually, this may be one of those emails that is written for my own benefit and then is never sent, but I'm not sure.

How should I respond to his "settlement" emails? Any ideas?

[tpaschal]

So, read back what I wrote, and of course I would have to edit it HEAVILY. But there are some things in there that do need saying.

I'm feeling rather lost and alone. I know I'm not, not really, because I know God is with me, but I miss being held by my lover, partner, and friend.

[Jeanette1120]

Your not alone.

I'm right here with you, in more ways than you can imagine.

(((HUGS)))

Jeanette

[glamgirl]

Your e-mail is full of YOU did this, YOU did that, YOU YOU YOU. What message are you trying to send? Is this e-mail more for you or your h? What are you trying to accomplish?

I see this as h let me point out all that you have done. Is that the message you want to deliver?

[MissH]

Hey TP,

Again, it's amazing how much our husbands are alike. I wish that was a compliment.

I will pay maximum child support, $1875/month (like he has a choice? Oh, give me a f***ing break!)

LOL, I got the same thing from my idiot. He tells me "I told my L that I want to give you the max on child suport) Dumbasses don't realize that it's not a choice.

I will leave the $1 million life insurance policy in place with the children as equal beneficiaries and if something should happen to me the money would be directed by a trustee until they reach the age of 25.

I advise you to check on this. In NY it's standard that an insurance policy is put into place to protect the children. However, it's not an inheritance that they receive at a certain age. He should be taking out a policy that IF he dies, then you will get money starting right away to cover child support. It's supposed to be in place of child support payments. My dummy tried to get away with that too. He didn't want to take out this policy he wanted to wait until the boys reached a certain age. My L said to him "Why do you care so much? You would be dead anyway. Is this your way of trying to control things beyond the grave too?"

I am glad you wrote the letter. BUT DO NOT give it to him. Consider it a therapy for you, to vent.

[tpaschal]

Your e-mail is full of YOU did this, YOU did that, YOU YOU YOU. What message are you trying to send? Is this e-mail more for you or your h? What are you trying to accomplish?

I see this as h let me point out all that you have done. Is that the message you want to deliver?

Well, like I said, I knew as I was writing it that it might just be one of those letters written for my own benefit that would never actually get sent.

And when I went back and re-read it, I know that I would not send it in that form.

But I do think the responsibility for all that H is blaming me for right now needs to be put back in his court.

Financial problems? Don't get a divorce.

Want the divorce anyway? You do the work for it. I can't stop it, but I won't help you out with it.

Divorce getting expensive? Don't blame me for your financial problems.

For almost 18 months he has spewed and blamed, and I am tired of being made the scapegoat for all that has happened.

I do believe that he is one of the ones who will have to actually go through with a divorce, get what he thinks he wants, before he will ever see any truths.

But my DB trained counselor advised me (after meeting with H twice) to hold out for as long as I possibly can and to make the divorce take as long as possible. I guess the C's reasoning is that not getting what he wants as fast as he wants it, and the financial difficulty, with bring H to the bottom faster. C also believes that OW is very pushy and demanding, and the longer time of her not getting what SHE wants will possibly bring about the demise of that relationship and again bring H to hitting rock bottom faster. Of course, in the meantime, H not getting what he wants when he wants it just makes him more angry and prone to spew.

And to be perfectly honest, another motivation for writing some of the things I did is because I know OW reads his email. So yeah, there's a little seed of vengeance in there.

But that's a big reason for why I posted it here first! To vent it here without needing to send it to him.

But how DO I respond instead? Any suggestions?