ms ladybug concerned...MR bug wants to move home.

[Marcum]

LB if he has a problem then there is nothing you can do untill he solves it. as for the sex part i guess as a guy i can tell you that if hes not showing any changes but likes to come over and seem nice before sex then its a act. let him earn the right to be with you phisicaly and not just with words, but actions.

[ms ladybug]

Well, the roller coaster continues. He was actually really pleasant last week. He CAME TO CHURCH with me on mother's day and took me out to breakfast that day. Gave me a really nice card, and a present "from the kids". Again though, turning into his normal meanie self later in the week. It's like he can't keep it up when he starts acting nice.

THEN, yesterday was the appt with my therapist to tell h that all my psych test came back normal...he wasn't thrilled at all. Which I really find sad. He can't be happy that I'm healthy. He wasn't happy to find that I am medically healthy (he swore I had thryoid problems, and wasn't happy to find that I had normal levels, excellent cholesterol, etc...) and now he's not happy to find that I'm mentally healthy as well. His conclusion..."I thought you has some sort of mental disorder and could get on meds so we can proceed with our lives and get to marriage counseling. Now that I know that's not the case, I realize that you CHOOSE to treat me like crap. I'm done." At the end of the session which consists of him telling my therapist a bunch of crap about me, and me telling my therapist about both the verbal and physical abuse, he leaves.
H
e was parked in front of me, so I go out to my car, and he is getting on his motorcycle and adjusting his helmet, and he doesn't even LOOK at me. So, I drive off. He calls me about 2 min later and asks me why I just drove off without talking to him?!?
I said, "you said you're done. You walked out without saying anything. you didn't look at me when I was getting in the car. What do you want? You want me to come over and chit-chat with you? You want a hug? What do you expect me to do?"
He says, "well that was quite a show you put on in there."

????

Then he tells me that I NEVER call him. I never try to talk to him, etc...
To which I replied, "Do you blame me? You're not pleasant to talk to!"
He says, "Well you can try. But you don't. You only do what YOU want to do. You don't care about anyone OTHER THAN YOURSELF." (he's repeated this about 1,000times in the last 6mos).
I said, "that's not true. I'm just going to allow you to treat me disrespectfully, and when you do, I refuse to entertain you any longer."
His reply,"you don't know anything about respect."
At that point, we hung up.

This morning he calls me to discuss some money issues, and which insurance company he should insure his motorcycle with, etc... After discussing it and deciding which company, I said, "OK. Go with that company, and choose this payment plan."
He says,"OK. Is that all you have to say to me?"
I said "I don't have anything else to say. I'm waiting for a call from..."
"FINE then! Nice talking to you! BYE!" hangs up.

Any wonder why I don't call him???

I talked to my mom last night and she asked me, "Are you going to be sad if he files for divorce?"
I said, "Of course I'll be sad, because divorce is a sad thing. It's going to mean moving, and it'll be really hard, but all I need to do is remember Christmas, or Easter, or really any of the past 6mos, and I'll know be OK with it."

And this I know, I'll be OK.

[jon2911]

Definitely a roller coaster. He's asking to spend time with you though, which is great. IMO he'll figure out soon that you're not the problem.

[Dom R]

Hi Ladybug,

I'm writing this with the small chance that you do care a teenietiny bit about your marriage still. Otherwise, this post should be skipped.

Your marriage cannot get better, until you can start viewing things from his perspective. That doesnt mean you have to AGREE with his perspective.... but you have to at least be able to see his point of view.

From what you write here... a lot of times, it doesnt seem that you do that.
You arent even acknowledging what he says most of the time.

You are "defending yourself" against what he says against you. But you are not validating what he says, or his feelings, in any way.

Specific example:

[he said]...

"Now that I know that's not the case, I realize that you CHOOSE to treat me like crap. I'm done."

At the end of the session which consists of him telling my therapist a bunch of crap about me, and me telling my therapist about both the verbal and physical abuse, he leaves.

So... any complaints he has about you, are "a bunch of crap".

It sounds like something along these lines happened:

He made a bunch of complaints about how you treat him badly. They may have been exagerated... they may have been off target... they may have been just complete misperceptions on his part.
The thing is though... every single one of his complaints, probably had some kind of basis for them.
BUT... rather than taking this one opportunity that you had, with both you and him in front of a marriage counsellor, to explore the reasons behind his complaints.... you chose to instead "counterattack", and complain to the therapist about how badly HE has treated YOU.

You didnt listen/validate/try to understand his hurts.... you just unloaded your hurts, and ignored his.

So, you basically wasted the entire session, and damaged things further by the way you reacted.

He HAS been trying. In amoungst his usual messed-up behaviour, he also made some positive steps towards you.
You did not reciprocate.

If you dont reward positive behaviour in some way, it's not reasonable to think that someone will continue to show you positive behaviour.

[ms ladybug]

I DO care about my marriage, I really do. I just feel so pushed back, and treated like crap, that I don't want this stranger back. Yes, I've listened to his gripes about me, and some are valid, MOST are WAY off base. I'm tired of the finger pointed at me, when he is clearly bordering on, if not full-on, abusive.

If I were to tell him today, "Let's work on our marriage." His response would be, "Great. How are you going to change?"

I'm never going to convince him that he needs help, that he is abusive, or that he's hurtful.

I KNOW the things I need to work on, and I don't deny any of those things, but I also won't go back to the SAME MAN. I will NOT put up with disrespect. I WILL NOT put up with verbal abuse, nor will i put up with physical abuse. I can't.

I feel so for gone that I just want out. I feel there have been so many wall put up in the last 6mos, and HURT, and I don't know how to explain it...It's like this "distance" between us, that I don't know how to shorten. It literally makes me want to run further away.

[Dom R]

I DO care about my marriage, I really do. I just feel so pushed back, and treated like crap, that I don't want this stranger back. Yes, I've listened to his gripes about me, and some are valid, MOST are WAY off base. I'm tired of the finger pointed at me, when he is clearly bordering on, if not full-on, abusive.

I completely understand that.

If I were to tell him today, "Let's work on our marriage." His response would be, "Great. How are you going to change?"

AAAand... what will be your response to that?
If he's going to be your husband in the future... doesnt he deserve an answer to that?

I'm never going to convince him that he needs help, that he is abusive, or that he's hurtful.

That may be true. the most important thing is, can you convince him to stop doing those hurtful actions to you, for whatever reason works for him?

I KNOW the things I need to work on,

then may I suggest the next time he asks you that question of "what are YOU going to change?", or similar... that rather than trying to deflect the question...or counterattacking.... that you response simply, and directly, by listing those things that you "know you need to work on"?

I think that you choosing to do that, may make him much more receptive to what you want, AFTER you recognize, acknowlege, and validate the things that you need to change, to him.

I also won't go back to the SAME MAN. I will NOT put up with disrespect. I WILL NOT put up with verbal abuse, nor will i put up with physical abuse. I can't.

you dont have to.

the best way for you to get him to treat YOU better, though... is to first make him feel safe and secure, that you will treat HIM better.

[catfan]

So Dom didn't come out and directly say it but what 180s can you do to change his behavior? What 180s can you do during these difficult conversations, during the counseling sessions?

[jon2911]

I'm encouraged that you two are in counseling at all. So many of us here would give anything just to make it that far. I'm sure it's extremely hard though.

[ms ladybug]

Well, we're not officially in counseling. He came with me this one time. Supposedly, we're going to go to mc, but he's hemming and hawing about it, so we'll see.

By the way jon, I was going to respond on your last thread, but it locked. Do you have a new one up??

[ms ladybug]

Feeling pooply about things today.
I just feel like since we've sep, there is too much crap between us, that we'll never be able to muddle through it. We've had very little contact in the past couple weeks. The kids call every night to say good-night, but other than that, we don't talk much.
Then Tues, I sent him a text saying that I was feeling "frisky", (I know, not DB, but it was fun). This led to a dozen or so messages sent back and forth that got pretty steamy. It ended with him calling me and seeing if I want him to come over, which of course after those messages, I did. Then he said, "my only concern is that the only time I hear from you is when you want sex, or you want to tell me something about the kids...not that you want my input, but you just want to tell me the decisions YOU'VE made about the kids."
That made me sad, so when he came over, I said, "It nice to see you. I love you and we don't even have to have sex if you feel like I'm using you."
He said, "You ARE using me, but I want to have sex too."
I said, "That's not what I want you to think."
He said, "Then why haven't you called me?"
I said, "I've been mad."
Then he said, and this kinda hit the nail on the head, "See. You let your feelings control your actions."
Wow. I DO. But, doesn't everyone? I mean really. Why would I call him when he'll just blame me for everything that's wrong with the world? My feelings DO control my actions. Isn't that normal? My church has been doing a marriage series, and so the whole love and respect REGARDLESS of how you FEEL is again pounding in my brain.

So, anyways, we had a great night (three times!). The next morning he left after saying good-bye to the kids. My S2 asks where daddy is (actually he asked where his motorcycle is). I said, "daddy left." And d4 said, "He went back to nana and papas house where he LIVES. I want daddy to move back home!" Ouch!!

Anyways, we left things on a really good note, so I called him yesterday on my way home from work just for small talk. He says, "Why are you calling me all of a sudden like this?" I said, "Do you not want me to call?"
He said, "I just don't know what your angle is. What do you want?"
I said, "I want to establish a friendship with you. Maybe we can see each other a little more, go out, MARRIAGE counseling?"
He said, "I used to want to go to marriage counseling, but you aren't going to change. You aren't going to do anything the counselor asks you to do (again ALL THIS being MY fault). So, I just don't think it would be worth my time."
I said, "You're right. We have nothing left to work on then. Nothing's going to change. Counseling would be a waste of time. I knew last night would be a mistake. I knew it would bite me in the a**. "(OK, a hint of sarcasm, but a lot of seriousness).
He said, "you don't have to say that. Why don't you tell me what you're going to change. What's going to be different." (again ALL MY fault).
I said, "If I tell you what I want to work on, you'll just hold it over me, and tell me that I can't change."
He said, "You can't."
I said, "Then what are we doing?"
He said, "You're not willing to admit that you f'd things up."
I said, "I f'd things up? By myself??"
That's when he hung up on me...

I sent him a text that said, "In you eyes nothing is able 2 change. If that's the chance I have, then let's not prolong things anymore. Sorry about last night."

I even regret the great sex.

That night, when the kids called to say good-night, he told me that he's thinking of changing his cell phone provider (we have a shared plan now). He asked if I was interested. I said, "no." Looks like one more separation.