I always love that feeling of gathering up stuff, packing up the truck, loading the cooler, deciding if you have enough food (do I need 2 bags of pistachios or 3?). There's so much anticipation and enthusiasm in the air!lodo
I have the same feeling when I am packing to go somewhere - especially camping or backpacking. But unpacking and cleaning up after the trip just does not have the same excitement.
Just back from seeing music in the Sierra. Festival was a total washout - an unpredicted freak storm came through and it constantly rained the entire time. Unheard of for this area. Still a lot of fun though. I danced my booty off and lusted after a dozen beautiful women - all with guys *sigh*.
My sitch isn't much changed. Have to admit that I did some snooping and came across an interesting email exchange between W and MIL. MIL had emailed me saying she hoped I'd be good again, knew this was a rough time, etc. I emailed back that I was doing good and that W seemed conflicted but was only focused on D so I'd let go and was working on learning and healing.
Well, MIL forwarded that to W. What I found interesting was her reply. W said that I probably thought she was conflicted because she'd come over and we'd had a good conversation. No mention that it is always her calling and asking to come over or that she always breaks into tears when she's here or that she's the one who won't leave and wants to talk.
Next W said this: "I don't feel conflicted about the relationship so much as I wonder/worry about myself - although I don't feel a void when we're not together, when we do talk, I feel like I don't have anyone else that I talk with in the same way. So yes, I miss that. And I can't help but ask - is the talking, the connection on those levels, enough to sustain a relationship? Maybe it is - I don't know. I feel sad and inadequate and unworthy and even very petty and ridiculous at times, but I also feel relieved and happy and settled. So maybe that's conflicted, maybe it's normal, whatever - it's reality."
No mention, of course, of OM. I'm starting to wonder if OM is still in the picture. Anyway, it strikes me that W is very immature about what constitutes a relationship. Yes, we'd grown apart and only had our friendship left, but isn't that the point where you work towards transcending the old and creating something new? When you realize you still connect with someone no matter how deep the problems, shouldn't you work towards making the rest into what you want? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like everything in a R sits on a solid friendship.
I also feel that W is in a reactionary space. She always has thought that the way to deal with problems is to be alone, but after several months - surprise! - she gets lonely. I hear that attitude coming through in this email and wonder how long before she gets lonely.
Oh well, she's not willing to approach this so I continue to move on. Just so conflicted right now about whether a long-term R is ever going to be a possibility.
Sounds like a lot of fun. Don't try to read too much into what W says to you, to MIL or to anyone else. They have constructed their own reality distortion field and until they shut it off, I think just about everything they say to friends and family is to justify their distorted reality. It gets even worse when her friends are enablers. My W has one of those.
Me45 W35 M6 T8 D16 SD11 D0 Dec 07: Bomb July 08: Busted! Thread
I don't know what W wants. I don't think she knows either - she just wants to pursue her career and not be burdened with anything else. She's relieved to be on her own, so good for her. I personally like being with someone.
I'm glad I snooped though - at least now I know what W is thinking. I may not agree with her, but it helps me let go while she pursues her own little fantasy of needing no one else in her life. Before she met me she was really lonely and she could never make relationships work. I'm assuming ours lasted as long as it did because we have a deep friendship and are compatible. Will she find that again? Who knows.
Billings is just a quick trip to see a facility - fly out one day, return the next. I thought about staying through the weekend, but I've been busy every weekend since I moved into my new place and really want some time to just hang out.
BTW, caipirinhas are really good - like dangerously so.
Sounds like you are getting along pretty well. Look back at your early posts and see how far you have come.
I am not suggesting anything but I'm curious -- at what point do you think you will be open to a new R? Will you give W some time first? Wait until D is final (if it gets that far - hope not!)? Or can you not imagine it at all right now? Just wondering...
Me45 W35 M6 T8 D16 SD11 D0 Dec 07: Bomb July 08: Busted! Thread
that's a good question and one I've asked myself again and again.
I'm ready now for a new R because I enjoy having someone to share things with - and of course there's the physical benefits as well. But when I've talked to other women I almost immediately notice that I just don't relate to them like I do my W - the way she and I communicate has always been a powerful part of our R and I know I'll probably never find that again. It's hard for me to think about what a new R will look like - I realize it's going to be different, built on different dynamics.
And to be honest, my W and I went through an almost identical experience 9 years ago - I can almost look back at my journals and see where she's at, or at least I feel I can do that but maybe this time is different. Anyway, she did reach a point where she realized her relationship with OM wasn't working and thought being alone was the answer, but kept thinking about and wanting to talk with me. After 2 months of that, she called me and told me she realized what we had. Of course after that, there were 2 more months of back and forth, with her changing her mind again, but when she finally committed, everything was great (until now). So part of me says, be patient - the same thing will happen. But then I ask, why do I want her back when she clearly hasn't dealt with herself and is perfectly capable of creating these problems over and over again? And of course the common thread between now and then is her focusing on her career and seeing any R as competition.
So I don't know - I guess I'm stumbling about hoping the answer will become more obvious with time. I'm just trying to concentrate on making my life better and am putting myself out there and not being closed to anything that might happen. I thought I'd wait until D was final before I started looking around again, but I'm seeing less and less of a reason to do that now. That said, I'm also not actively pursuing anyone to date.
Long post, I know, but a question I keep thinking about.
I'm ready now for a new R because I enjoy having someone to share things with - and of course there's the physical benefits as well. But when I've talked to other women I almost immediately notice that I just don't relate to them like I do my W - the way she and I communicate has always been a powerful part of our R and I know I'll probably never find that again. It's hard for me to think about what a new R will look like - I realize it's going to be different, built on different dynamics.
I could have written that too. I think after 20 years being with someone that new R's and friendships just can't compete with that level of intimacy which some of that, maybe most of that, has come with time spent with a person. I think it is impossible to have that instantly, and when my H says he loves the OW like that (in less than a week supposedly) I don't think that is genuine love & intimacy, but I think comes with time only after months and maybe years of a R. I do think though that if/when we divorce, we will also have opportunities to have just as fullfilling relationships, if not more so with all the work we have done on ourselves, but guess you just have to be patient to have the close intimacy part. And you know I think b/c of our intimacy, my H and took each other for granted as well and in our case not spending time together without the kids, etc. and that is the negative of that, something I will also try to avoid in the future. Karen
Went to San Francisco last night for a nice dinner with a female friend. It felt good to spend the whole evening in a fancy restaurant enjoying wonderful food and good conversation.
We of course talked about W. My friend has been pretty ruthless since the whole thing started and she's right. My W hasn't been a nice person. Friend said she'd called W at one point (they're friends too) and told W she was losing me. W asked what she should do and friend said to agree to do something with me - go on a long walk or agree to an activity. W never did and friend said that's when she lost complete respect for W.
And during the conversation, I realized that I have less and less blame within me for W. She's on her own journey and I just happened to get caught up in it for awhile. But my values are different than hers, so we move on, going on different paths. And I'm okay with that. Not sure how we stayed together for 12 years - was it an actual connection or an unwillingness to face the facts? Not sure anymore, not sure it matters either.
So, I'm learning to forgive and accept - the next step in all of this, I guess. Being willing to trust again, though, is going to be tough. Really tough.
But when I've talked to other women I almost immediately notice that I just don't relate to them like I do my W - the way she and I communicate has always been a powerful part of our R and I know I'll probably never find that again. It's hard for me to think about what a new R will look like - I realize it's going to be different, built on different dynamics.