Why do you think you are this way? Did your ex-wife cheat on you?
Good Morning,
Yes. I found out my ex wife cheating on me with a friend who was also married. Interesting thing: When we were dating, if we would go to a bar, or a party, guys would inevitably hit on my W. It was a rare occasion when that didn't happen. It never phased me one bit. I was in the mindset that it didn't matter because I was reassured that she was going home with me.
That changed, and I never knew exactly when or why. I suspect it had something to do with her "different" relationship with her cousin and cousin's H.
One night, while laying in bed (back then), we were just talking about things and somehow, we got on this conversation where she explained to me something that had happened while she was dating her ex. Her ex and cousin's H were best friends. She and her cousin are best friends, so naturally, the 4 of them were very close. Close enough that, while in Vegas one weekend, they discussed swapping partners. My W agreed reluctantly because she is a "pleaser" (meaning she may not have liked the idea as much, but wanted to make her BF happy). So they were messing around and her ex freaked out. He couldn't handle his jealousy. Things were never the same for them and they eventually broke up (for other reasons, not just this).
Her telling me this, I was not ready for something like that. I asked a million questions, it made me feel like there was something between my W and cousin's H - I simply didn't fully understand the dynamics of their relationship. That carried on because I became somewhat jealous of the R that W and cousin's H had. That carried on into many facets of our R woes (I'll save some of those so this doesn't become a two page read).
Bottom line: my jealousy and mistrust started to creep in and I began destructive behaviors like snooping. That didn't go well, either because W talks to guys from work, etc. and there were a couple of things I was not happy about seeing.
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Does your wife ever suggest or imply that she doesn't trust you or is suspicious or paranoid? Just wondering.
My W never implied she thought I was cheating. I have not seen an ounce of jealousy on her part. My past R with the ex-W was bad, though, because I did cheat there (long story of cheating on her part and me revenge-cheating). I was upfront with my W about all of that and she never told me or acted like that concerned her. It has always remained a non-issue.
Me: 30 W: 27 Married: 9/2007 ILUBNILWU: 1/2008 W moved out 5/24/2008 W suicide 8/25/2009
Well I think it sounds like what started this trust issue was first the foundation of your ex-W cheating + when you found out that your present W had had sex with her cousin's husband--whom you had already known and established a relationship with and just thought of as family and it would have been unimaginable that something like that had gone on--it triggered this condition.
I think it's difficult enough for some people to have to deal with a significant other's ex even in passing. But to find out that you have been having a close relationship--and that SHE has been having a close relationship right under your nose--even though it is now platonic--with someone she had sex with--must have really pulled the rug out from under you.
It certainly would have affected me and I wouldn't have been able to continuing hanging out, having double dates and spending holidays with them without no longer wanting to do that.
How long had you two been seeing each other, and how long had you known the cousin and her H, when W told you about this past?
Well I think it sounds like what started this trust issue was first the foundation of your ex-W cheating + when you found out that your present W had had sex with her cousin's husband--whom you had already known and established a relationship with and just thought of as family and it would have been unimaginable that something like that had gone on--it triggered this condition.
I think it's difficult enough for some people to have to deal with a significant other's ex even in passing. But to find out that you have been having a close relationship--and that SHE has been having a close relationship right under your nose--even though it is now platonic--with someone she had sex with--must have really pulled the rug out from under you.
It certainly would have affected me and I wouldn't have been able to continuing hanging out, having double dates and spending holidays with them without no longer wanting to do that.
How long had you two been seeing each other, and how long had you known the cousin and her H, when W told you about this past?
Tink
They actually didn't have sex. The whole thing blew over very quickly because of the ex BF's inability to handle it. I don't remember exactly how long we had been dating, I would say at least 8+ months if not a year. As time went on, I began to understand more of the dynamics of the cousin's R with my W. They are simply best friends. The 3 of them (W, cousin, cousin's H) are very very close. It sounds cliche, but it isn't about sex. They just love each other very much. They wanted me to be "in the circle," but I had them at arms length because of my own insecurities with the whole thing and with my past.
This year, I finally got around to being comfortable enough to want to be as close as they originally wanted me to be, but that blew up in my face because I finally became ready, but they had been waiting 2+ years. When I "decided" to be ready, I jumped right in and got kind of bent out of shape when they didn't respond the way I expected.
Now...the cousin's H stopped talking to me because of a situation . My W would go out with either cousin or cousin's H sometimes after work, and I wasn't really invited. That bothered me and I always let the W know. She could never understand why it was a problem to me that I was not invited. I sent the cousin's H a TM to let him know I was sad that I wasn't invited and when he didn't respond, the following day I sent an email. He had finally had enough of my whining (which became frequent) and he just went off on me. Sent me a 5 page note ripping me apart for not being patient, pushing them away, approaching things the wrong way, etc. Since then (about 6-8 weeks ago) he refuses to respond to contact from me. He still asks the W to go out, and she has a couple of times. That just never sat with me right either because I felt that, even though it is my "fault" that the cousin's H won't talk to me, she should stand by me.
She was stuck in a hard place though, having to choose between the best friends and her H.
Me: 30 W: 27 Married: 9/2007 ILUBNILWU: 1/2008 W moved out 5/24/2008 W suicide 8/25/2009
Why did you send him a text and email? I guess you were friendly and close enough with him to have his cell and email address?
Absolutely. We had become pretty good friends. The 4 of us hung out a lot.
I sent him the text because I was sitting at home, bothered by the fact that my W was out with him, and I was not invited. That plugs directly into how I hate not being included (something I described a little in a previous post about being a control person). I just couldn't understand (and still kind of don't) why my W would explain to me that this is "just us getting together casually after work for a couple of drinks/food" and yet I wasn't invited (even though it was just a casual thing). Am I crazy for feeling left out (even though this has how they have been even before I entered the picture?)
Me: 30 W: 27 Married: 9/2007 ILUBNILWU: 1/2008 W moved out 5/24/2008 W suicide 8/25/2009
That's the thing. He's practically her cousin. So you can't really ever feel like you are as good friends with her family as she is. If something happens, they will always choose her.
I always make it a policy to go through my partner for them to deal with their family. And it seems like it's just like if you wanted to go meet one of your guy friends for a beer, and she complained that she should be able to come along too always.
I think the difference here is that
1. Her buddy is a man 2. He's not REALLY her relative, it's her cousin's H and 3. She almost slept with him once
She really shouldn't have told you that. You could have probably gone your whole life not knowing that. It really threw an extra wrench into the works.
Now having said all this, I don't believe in men and women continuing to hang out with opposite sex friends without their partner once they are together, especially on a regular basis.
I hung out and got a beer once in the two years we've been together, with a guy friend who I was friends with before. I never hung out regularly with him before either.
That's another thing, if she was hanging out with a guy who she befriended AFTER you were already together, that's a big no no.
But when it's a friend she already had, the lines are blurred. The lines are blurred even more because he's kind of family.
And then on the OTHER side, the lines are blurred because of the almost sex thing.
AND if it bothered you this much, if she was committed to you, she should have stopped hanging out with him alone.
But then again, if that was the only thing that bothered you, perhaps I would think that. But because you have put so many stipulations or complaints on everything she does, everywhere she goes, everyone she hangs out with without you, it kind of takes away from winning on this one thing, because it looks like you are trying to control her generally in every aspect.
I think the best thing you can do now is go dark.
How many years ago did she tell you about the almost-sex thing?
That's the thing. He's practically her cousin. So you can't really ever feel like you are as good friends with her family as she is. If something happens, they will always choose her.
True. I guess I was so wrapped up in how I felt, I forgot that fact.
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But then again, if that was the only thing that bothered you, perhaps I would think that. But because you have put so many stipulations or complaints on everything she does, everywhere she goes, everyone she hangs out with without you, it kind of takes away from winning on this one thing, because it looks like you are trying to control her generally in every aspect.
Another goal of mine: be less whiney. I used to be easy going. Somewhere, I lost that. Need to get it back.
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I think the best thing you can do now is go dark.
I can't wait to get the book so I fully understand how this works. So far, last night was the W's first night sleeping at her apt. She already called because we had tentative plans to do something like dinner tonight. She asked me if I still wanted to do it, so trying to stay positive, but not be wishy-washy, I said "I would love to see you, however if you are tired, I understand. I will leave it up to you" (she was very tired because she hasn't been sleeping and had no food to eat. She went over to her moms today, and now has to go buy a vacuum, so she's tired. She is currently going to call me back and let me know. I wonder what the best thing to do here is?
I think I should have said that I would like to see her (versus wanting to) and left it at that...thoughts on that?
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How many years ago did she tell you about the almost-sex thing?
She told me probably about 2 years ago. [/quote]
Me: 30 W: 27 Married: 9/2007 ILUBNILWU: 1/2008 W moved out 5/24/2008 W suicide 8/25/2009
"I would love to see you, however if you are tired, I understand. I will leave it up to you"
See, this is really passive of you leaving it up to her.
"I think I should have said that I would like to see her (versus wanting to) and left it at that...thoughts on that?"
I think it's exactly the same thing, whether you tell her you want to see her or you would like to see her.
Going dark means you are busy or tired or something. You need to be the one to choose not to see her.
Right now you have put yourself in the position of being back to waiting for her signal whether you get to see her or not.
I would suggest that when she calls that you tell her thanks but you're really tired and maybe you can do it another night. And leave it at that.
And then if she tries to make a specific date, say something vague like, well let's see.
If she presses or gets upset don't explain, just say something like Can we talk about it another time? If she presses for a time to think about it, just say I just want sometime to think about it.
She may just say OK to your response of being tired and some other time, but these are backup ideas in case she starts pursuing.
Just keep her being the one who is pursuing and by doing that you can't put her in charge of deciding when she will make time for you.
If she winds up saying no because she is tired, just say OK I understand and if she tries to make specific other plans, I suggest you do the above.
