Think of a way he can experiment with something new, so that he can't fail. Be his mind and voice to start with, and articulate what you think his fears and avoidance might be. Identify small steps for him to take, and please be patient with him. If he senses any impatience or pressure than he will retreat.[quote]
CL,
I guess this was what I was trying to acomplish by telling him that I felt he was waiting for those in love feelings to come back and that I chose to love him but, I do see where it might sound like i am telling him I want more effort from him when I talked about what I needed. I also mentioned what I thought he needed for me to meet his needs.
Could you please help me here with specific steps. Im'e so jumbled with so much feeling that I could use the help i feel to make sure i give him the guidance he needs right now.
I guess that maybe I don't even know where to start anymore.
JAK
Last edited by jak58; 05/20/0805:03 PM.
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Jak, Is it increased talking what you're shooting for with your H to start with?
It doesn't sound like he was defensive with you. It sounds like he listened to what you said. It sounds like you have some freedom to be more direct with him. He'll let you know when you've gone too far.
Maybe a pattern you need to change, is that you say your piece, and then leave your H unassisted. You then become discouraged because his changes aren't maintained, and then you label it a failure. Once he agrees to work on something small, then hold him accountable by meeting at least weekly (regularly).
You're going to need to change how you're measuring progress. You've decided that if change isn't permanent, then it's failure. Measure something that will likely show progress.
Remember, that the most effective way to change behavior is thru reinforcement.
My dance teacher is skilled at this. She only gives us so much of a step to work on at one time, even though there is far more technique involved. We are praised for the progress we make. She then adds greater difficulty incrementally. This is known as shaping a behavior in the psychology books--rewarding successive approximations of the behavior you're trying to achieve.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
[/quote]Maybe a pattern you need to change, is that you say your piece, and then leave your H unassisted. You then become discouraged because his changes aren't maintained, and then you label it a failure. Once he agrees to work on something small, then hold him accountable by meeting at least weekly (regularly).[quote]
CL,
That is just it, he never really agrees verbally to anything and gets angry if I do try to hold him accountable for anything and certainly doesn't want to talk about it. I always validate what he has worked on thus far and I do notice the babysteps that he has taken to get us this far. He is in a bad place right now and can't seem to find his way out and this is what I am feeling from him.
Update:
H wrote me a letter yesterday. The most I feel he has said since the bomb.
Answered my questions regaurding time together.
He also answered what I wrote about in love feelings As I thought he is waiting for them to come back. He has felt them in the past and as he says more recently than High school. (I told him that was an example). He mentioned the talking in his sleep said he was sorry doesn't remember that. He also said that she does not talk to him any more and that, that bothers him. he said he was sorry for it and that I didn't need or deserve to hear it.
I then told him that it bothered me, that it bothered him and that my feeling was that he still had feelings for her and wouldn't be able to have those in love feelings for me because of that. That I could not help him get over her only he can decide to do that and that he needed to work on it. Then I cried silently. Told him thank you for writing the letter. That we needed to communicate. Im'e tearing as I write this. I knew he still had feelings, felt it and he knew that I did. Wev'e been married to long for me not to know. Just like I know he still has the cards he got from her in his locker. Told him I feel I have been very patient that I understand he has to work through this. I have told him before many times that I won't wait forever. Maybe I should have again last night. No maybe not, he knows and when the time comes if the time comes i'll tell him I can no longer wait.
Everything that was said was said with grace, compassion, and in a quiet voice. Im'e pretty proud of the way I handled that news. Of course I knew that she was probobly still an issue with him.
I want to thank her for not talking to him though but, I won't.
Just wondering what to do now. And now I feel he's cake eating as he gets so much from me.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
[quote][/quote] My dance teacher is skilled at this. She only gives us so much of a step to work on at one time, even though there is far more technique involved. We are praised for the progress we make. She then adds greater difficulty incrementally. This is known as shaping a behavior in the psychology books--rewarding successive approximations of the behavior you're trying to achieve.
CL,
I like this analogy. I don't feel any thing has been a failure with H. Since the bomb he has come a long way a babystep mat a time and I let him know that. I do feel right now that he is having a hard time working on us when he still wnts her.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
He wants to be around more. He touches me more. He talks more to me(about everyday stuff). He gives more kisses. He is more involved with the kids.
These are things that I praise him on but,he doesn't seem to be able to move forward from here. Before the bomb he sould not stand to be in the same room with me.
I feel it is because of the feelings he still has for her. He can not allow himself to fell for me. I sense this at different times. As of late she is back working his shift so the drift now I think has to do with that.
It is a big baby step that he told me his feelings about it, as he was saying that there was nothing, and believe me I thank him for that. Now I wonder what else he lied about and if he feels comfortable enough to tell me now. Just doesn't make it any easier for me. I am trying to figure out what I need right now for me to be able to continue.
I do think that we are both defensive sometimes. I try not to be and don't think that I have been an a while, not good Dbing but, I feel at times everyone slips up.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Sorry about the wait. I have been really tied up in my own saga for a while. You asked me for advice? If I knew what to do I would not be here. I think your Husband is allot like my Wife but it is only beliefs. I have not checked phone logs so I do now know if they still "talk". Reading your post I think your sitch is father along than mine. I am hoping Retro will get me to where you and your H are in at least talking about what happened and where we can go from here. Even though I am far from where I want to be. When I look back…
1. my Wife would not look at me in the eyes 2. Would not really “talk” to me just give short answers 3. Always seemed “annoyed” with me. 4. Was REALLY secretive about her Cell phone. ( Dummy did not think I could figure out looking at the bill on line I guess) 5. Would make dinner ONLY for her and son 6. IF she washed my clothes she would just dump them on the bed for me to fold and put away 7. Did not want to be in the same room with me. 8. ALWAYS found something “wrong” I did. 9. When son did something wrong she would always somehow connect it to me. (Just like your father)
Now things are different. She looks at my face; she buys things (food wise) I like just for me. She only sometimes looks annoyed. (She is under a lot of stress being jobless and our saving are almost out.) She makes dinner for me also and she does not leave the room when I enter… So I don’t know where I am going with this but I do not think I can give any real good advice...
Take care Husband
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
ALl right guys I have to put into perpective just what i feel and how it affects me and our R.
Quote:
[/quote]Is it increased talking what you're shooting for with your H to start with?[quote]
Yes this is what I want. I don't feel that we can move forward without this.
Like H had said about what his R was before and what it is now is almost the exact sitch I have (had.
H has come a long way but I feel can not move any farther no matter how patient and understanding I have been because he has been unable to budge with his feelings toward EA OW. He says he wants those IL feelings back but he can't as long as he still has them for her, and he still does.(said it without coming right out and saying it).
When I wrote my letter I told him that I felt that he didn't want to do much with me lately. Actually he does try to make a point of doing little things with me and I overlooked these little things and did not clarify myself as should have bad DBing there . He does do things like meet me for ice-cream, went Garage saleing, Not a lot but it's there. My problem (what I should have said) is in planning Vacation, and camping trips things that require planning he wants no part of just book them. When I ask what his thoughts are about vac. he just says nothing or I don't know. I asked once about each and that was it. I finally booked one trip and just gave him the date after he asked if I booked anything.
In all actuality my Issue is the fact that he still after all of this time and we have been piecing for going on Two years is that we are still basically stuck where we were a year ago and that I think is my fault. It's that cheeseless tunnel I keep going down. It is the fact that when I try to detach and distance myself he knows what buttons to push to suck me back in. I do do things for me but I do try to make sure i am available for him. Isn't that what piecing is about along with working on communcation for a better R. Am I allowing him to stay in his tunnel and pine for OW thus not being able to truly commit to me emotionally?
TAL,
I have your e-mail at home but i don't get on there unless H is gone as he is always looking over my shoulder.
H,
Wish My H would go to counceling, Retro, or the Dr.
Are you ok?
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
but, I won't.