If you love your wife, you'd go through hell for her. But would you go through hell for her, even if you didn't know that she would come back with you?
So, what's the answer? The newcomer answer is, "of course I would". But literally speaking, should you go through hell for a WAS? I think it's no.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
You're talking about Newcomers, so that is about what I would expect the answer to be. Actually right now they ARE going through hell for there WAW.
They won't always feel like this. They'll get stronger and hopefully take back their power. Everyone has their limit. Some people just reach it sooner then others.
If you love your wife, you'd go through hell for her.
This is one of those catch phrases or slogans that sound great until you think too much about it...
It depends on what hell means.
Does it mean waking up at the hellacious hour of 5 am to go for a run so that she still finds you sexy after all this time?
Does it mean offering to cook a really nice dinner when you really want to put your feet up and order another pizza?
Does it mean biting your tongue and letting s/t minor pass instead of 'winning' another argument?
I have seen some very wonderful healed Rs after pretty ugly affairs. But they tend to involve a LBS who stopped overfocusing on the WAS and poured that energy into themselves. Kind of like what one might be doing in 'Surviving' still, just as one might have done through and after all those phases and transitions from Beginners onward.
In a sense, then, if that is the question, and "going through hell" involves some sense of perseverance, steadfastness, and self-discipline,... then I would say 'yes'.
Love is worth fighting for. At some point, if/when that love b/t the two persons is destroyed by the choices/actions of the WAS and LBS and we are set free, it seems like we then have the opportunity to redirect our nurturant and caring love toward our children, ourselves, new intimate others and we may even hold a more loving stance toward the more general other - neighbors, friends, even strangers.
We are wiser, much less foolish, but also hopefully gentler with self and others.
That's a very different stance than the stereotypical "bitter divorcee". BTW, where does this stereotype come from? Is it describing the low energy or exhaustion post-D or is it what happens if one stays over-focused on the X?
Thanks FL for your perspective. That's a nice way of addressing "going through hell".
What I was considering as I thought about that statement was not only would you, but should you, go through hell. My feeling was the point of all this was to drag yourself out of hell and get yourself to a stable place, so that you can be the anchor outside of hell that your spouse can latch on to if they perhaps want help dragging themselves out. I guess running at 5 am would qualify as well, but I guess my answer would still be no, I'm not running at 5 am for anyone.
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That's a very different stance than the stereotypical "bitter divorcee". BTW, where does this stereotype come from?
I think if it's a stereotype that it's grounded in reality. There are a lot of bitter divorcees, the worst of which are those that did the walking away. I see more bitterness, I think, from those that did the walking...they never hesitate to inform anyone willing to listen what a dirty, rotten S.O.B. they left.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
My opinion, and since it's my thread I can express it, is that there are some pluses as far as growth through this process, but it also leads to some negatives...that eventually you also have to work through. One negative is taking the blame for everything bad that occurred in the marriage. You weren't the monster you were painted. It isn't necessarily true that all you have to do is fix yourself and everything will be rosy. While the WAS probably does have some legitimate gripes, they have problems of their own, sometimes major ones, and these may rear their ugly head despite your best efforts. Hope can be a good thing, but also a negative. Too much hope leads to expectations that your spouse is going to do something you want. It leads to looking too hard at every little thing as a sign of positivity. I sometimes felt that this site actually stood in the way of moving forward. I think there may be more successes with this site than with not doing it, but I wonder how much of that is simply the act of stretching it out long enough for your spouse to come around. Just idle musing.
Me
Hey Wes,
I think I've heard this one from you before. To me, it's the process of hoping and looking too hard that the newcomers need. Whether it will work or not is secondary IMHO. Caught up in the whirlwind of pain and stress of a marriage coming apart, these folks need something to cling to. A system for getting the marriage fixed is perfect for them even if it is not going to work. They need the system, the mantras to repeat, the steps to follow...it helps them survive until they get out of the other side.
As much as we would like to be able to say "your M will work, your M won't, ok that's settled lets all go have a beer", it doesn't pan out that way. You're going to have to pass through hell whether you want to or not, even if you kick the WAS to the curb instantly. Might as well have something to do while you are riding it out.
"your M will work, your M won't, ok that's settled lets all go have a beer"
I think there should be a website where this is the only mantra. If there were more get togethers for beer and commiseration, this would go much easier.
My idle musing of the day is about cherishing. I saw a couple of WAWs that talked about how they didn't feel cherished by their husbands. The one said her husband was a good man, but there had to be more to the marriage than work, come home, eat, watch TV. Is him being a good man enough? She felt it wasn't and wondered about walking away because her request for more love fell on deaf ears or defensive ears.
That got me thinking about me. I don't always show my wife I cherish her. In any relationship there is a cycle of being more loving and attentive alternating with being more self-centered/self-focused. I wonder how much of the latter it takes for your spouse to feel unloved? I look at my marriage and it mostly consists of not much more than work, supper, TV or some activity that may not include my wife, occasional fights, and nighty-night with a quick peck. And most days I'm satisfied with this and since I'm satisfied, if my wife doesn't say otherwise, I'd assume she was satisfied also. But how do I know she doesn't want something sweet out of me and doesn't want to have to tell me that she wants some form of affection? This is the scary thing about marriage...when you keep certain feelings and desires to yourself because you don't want to have to ask for it.
I suppose the smart husband would try every day to at least hit a little of the love languages. Maybe try weekly to really show you care. I don't know...any thoughts?
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
