SC - there is a lot of truth in what you say. I know our marriage was strained before the A - the hard part is that everybody that knows us thought we were very happy, heck, I thought we were happy, strained after raising two kids and in a private college in CA, so finances and empty nesting was the reason I thought we were strained. Now that we are in counseling, I see the role I played, in fact, I take the majority of blame (not all) in the stress. But for me to ask her to give up OM is a deal breaker. There is no working on a R with WAW if he is in the picture. If she thinks there is a future for them, then she needs to figure that out, I will be working on me and the R for a long time - so if that doesn't work, and I am still around, great. But for me, I honestly can not function knowing that she is living in our home while continuing an EA with a OM she had a PA with. It will no longer sit with me.
Just to confuse the matter further, I thought I'd share my opinion here.
H tried to give me an ultimatum last Nov. Him or OM. I would have chosen to continue to communicate with OM (who I'd never met in person, lived on the opposite coast, who was 13 years older than me). Sounds like a stupid choice, huh.
I wasn't choosing OM, I was choosing not to let H CONTROL ME. That was the major issue in our R. H was extremely controlling.
My H kept saying OM was the wedge between us, he wasn't, our R was the wedge. I kept asking H what was the wedge for the 10 years when OM wasn't around ???
I do agree with setting boundaries on how she treats you.
Just my 2 cents.
Two thoughts here, two wrongs don't make a right! The other is control is not always the issue in the relationships, it obiviously was in yours. You took a stand, you wanted your husband to change. Sometimes it takes something earth shattering to change a person. Sad but true! Either way, CBK needs to work on himself, he can't control his Wife, if he could she would be at home and loving her life!
Your husband can't control you, the only way for him to control you is if you let him! It is your choice to allow him too or not! Either way we only really have control over ourselves and really nothing else! That is why we work on ourselves.
Married:10 years D final 8/28/08 10 minutes is all it took Life goes on and DB was no small part in growing from the Divorce!
You are right GF - she has her priorities as her first - she said her IC said it was okay for her to be selfish. Early on in our convo's, I would tell her that she is acting very selfish and there are lots of people involved - well, heck, that seemed to backfire.
I will see how MC goes, like I said, I was walking into those sessions with the victim attitude. That is what I need to change when I get there. I would always try to talk about poor me and WAW would just validate her reasons for wanting to leave me. I hope by Thursday, I will have grown even stronger. I actually scheduled my DB coach that day as well for some added confidence.
We will see what happens - just trying to figure things out.
CBK
I think the reason WAW's get selfish is because we feel (right or wrong) that we have given everything to everyone for years & years. We even lost ourselves in the meantime. Then one last straw, & whammo. We realize if we don't take care of us, nobody is going to. We want to feel young, sexy, alive, desirable, appreciated, we feel life is passing us by, & things aren't going the way we had planned.
When we went to MC & H would talk about "poor him", I was disgusted. I had hurt so much for so long, & I tried to talk to him about "poor me" all those years, he never listened, so why should I listen now ??
I hope something I share, helps you see inside her brain a bit. I hope you to go in there confident, secure, but kind, & patient. Let her talk about wanting to leave. Listen to her pain. I know she's causing you a lot of pain too. I know she's turned your world upside down & inside out.
You have to let her vent until she's done. The only reason I'm still living in this house is, he stopped pushing, he stopped trying to control, he stopped placing requests & demands on me, he let's me call all the shots. If I tell him I'll make pancakes (this is for Ready) he backs up & lets me make pancakes. He's doing all the things I asked him to do all those years ago. He give me lots of space & in doing this, we're making baby steps towards having the relationship we both can be happy about.
Take care of you. You're in my thoughts.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
The only reason I'm still living in this house is, he stopped pushing, he stopped trying to control, he stopped placing requests & demands on me, he let's me call all the shots. If I tell him I'll make pancakes (this is for Ready) he backs up & lets me make pancakes. He's doing all the things I asked him to do all those years ago. He give me lots of space & in doing this, we're making baby steps towards having the relationship we both can be happy about.
Please define "call all the shots." CBK is still able to set reasonable boundaries (no contact with OM for example, and proof via transparency), isn't it? Just treat his wife, should she come back, as a full partner in their marriage, correct?
IOW, I think it works best when the firm boundary-setting/enforcing, the confrontation, and the exposure, all represent a "180" from the normally-meeker betrayed spouse.
Puppy
Yes, I also agree completely.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
SC - very insightful and useful. I would talk about poor me in MC, I was very much playing the victim role - "why is she doing this to me?" type of attitude. She is in the process of taking care of her, I wasn't doing a very good job of it - can't say the OM is either as he is married. Even in my letter - I said something like "you are probably asking yourself WHY KNOW does he get it!" or someting like that. I can stop pushing if the boudaries for both of us are fair, that is all I am asking. But you are right, I will let her vent, I will listen and validate her feelings, I never thought I was overly controling, so I need to look further there, more like manipulating... If I know there is a possible future for us, then we can work on us.
Again SC, this is a very helpful post.
CBK
M=46 W=47 M=24 (together 26) D21, S19 Bomb 3/16/08 OM 3/28/08 WAW moved out 5/16 Divorce final 10/09
SC - there is a lot of truth in what you say. I know our marriage was strained before the A - the hard part is that everybody that knows us thought we were very happy, heck, I thought we were happy, strained after raising two kids and in a private college in CA, so finances and empty nesting was the reason I thought we were strained. Now that we are in counseling, I see the role I played, in fact, I take the majority of blame (not all) in the stress. But for me to ask her to give up OM is a deal breaker. There is no working on a R with WAW if he is in the picture. If she thinks there is a future for them, then she needs to figure that out, I will be working on me and the R for a long time - so if that doesn't work, and I am still around, great. But for me, I honestly can not function knowing that she is living in our home while continuing an EA with a OM she had a PA with. It will no longer sit with me.
CBK
I understand, we each have our own deal breakers. We each have our own line in the sand. I'm not here to choose yours for you, I'm only here to offer thinking material. Chewing gum for the brain if you will.
I can't imagine how difficult it is to be in the LBS position. I can't offer much advice there. I can offer empathy, & compassion however.
I believe in pay it forward. I get so much from reading your thoughts, & FG's, & Ready's & Woog's & M from T, & Jeff, & all the guys who pour out their thoughts here. I know my heart has softened towards my H since I've been reading here. So, my pay it forward is to share what I can that may be similar to your WAW's thinking. Think of my opinions/advice like a buffet, take what you like, leave what you don't. I'm not offended when people disagree with me even. I think the combined effort of the group, makes this work for the good of all. Hugs. I want only the best for you.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
Your husband can't control you, the only way for him to control you is if you let him! It is your choice to allow him too or not! Either way we only really have control over ourselves and really nothing else! That is why we work on ourselves.
I agree & disagree. If I had healthy self-esteem & self-worth when I married him, I would not have let him control me. Because I did not have those, I believed the way he was treating me was what I deserved. Now, I'm working on myself, I'm developing the confidence to insist that he treat me in non-abusive and non-controlling ways. Thanks for your thoughts.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
