Help! New to this...still hoping for R

[sandi2]

What do I do, he seems to be so content without us and pleased to be on his own without any responsibilities. How do I make him miss us and realize how important family and marriage are? I hate this so much.

The sad thing is that you cannot "make" him feel or do anything he doesn't want to. You have no control over him and the sooner you can accept that fact the better off your health will be b/c you are going to become very sick with your anger issues. You are letting all of this get to you. You want him back and yet you are so mad at him over the financial end of things. I think that that is over-shadowing everything else at the moment.

He is probably acting like he is simply b/c it is a relief to be out from under the "pressure" that he felt for a long time.

I would not discuss D with him. As long as it can be put off, the longer you have to show him how you have changed. But, sweetie, you have got to change first. You are too angry right now and that is what is shining through all your good efforts. If you could talk to somebody like a Pastor or Counselor (that is pro-marriage) and maybe get this anger out. I can understand anger and resentment b/c I have had to work on myself in that area. When we go for years and years of pushing it all down inside of us....it will explode after a while or else turn us into very ugly bitter old women. I think that is the saddest thing on earth is to see a person who has allowed themselves to get in that shape. Fight it Rusty, don't let it turn you into a person that nobody can stand to be around.

If he has started seeing OW, then it is like finding a new "toy" for men and he may not want to give it up. All you can do at this time to to work on that list I gave you and really work on the anger issues. If it can be resolved, then work on that, but if it can't, then I don't think you should consider trying to enter back into a R with him until all of that has been worked through.

Take care.

Sandi

[Rusty]

Boy Sandi - you are so right. My anger gets ahold of me and I just want to explode! My oldest son has told me so many times "Mom, I don't want to see you this same way two years from now" - the old bitter woman you were talking about. I have talked to Pastor and a counselor, who is a holistic healing type and it has been very helpful. She talks alot about karma and that really resonated with me. The "you get what you give out" thing is so true. That is when I have tried to think about what I do and say, mostly because I don't want to have all that anger and sadness in my life! Sometimes I feel like if I let the anger go and do the 180, I am giving approval to what he is doing and I don't approve. Our relationship has always been with me in control - so the loss of control has been huge for me. I am going to post the list on my desk so I can remained focused on it.

I wish I knew for sure if he is seeing someone or not. I've thought about following him to see - would that be crazy? If I don't get caught doing it, would it be okay? Or should that not even be important. Fidelity and commitment are very important to me and I don't know if I could survive him being with someone else.

I'm going to keep myself very busy today - it is rainy and grey - so it could get very depressing.

[Rusty]

Brandon - my whole career has been based on "doing well while doing good". I work in fundraising for charities and I love it. And I agree wholeheartedly with your 4 important things. One thing I do know is that if this S had not have occurred, I would never be in the place I am spiritually. It has brought me closer to God - I am attending a weekly bible study and learning so much! I am going to really focus on my work and kids - that I have already decided. This summer, since I work on a project/self employment basis, we will have alot of fun I hope!

The business my H and father own, I am not involved in other than financially via ownership, so I don't have to really worry about the day-to-day stuff. My biggest worry is that my H will not be fair to my family - they have invested so much in us and this business. And unthreading this mess when D comes up will be painful! But - I am not going to dwell on that. If and when D comes, I will deal with it then.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Rusty]

Okay - someone HELP!!! Did I make a big backsliding mistake? In talking with my father about the possible D and the business interests, I have decided I need to take a position on the board of directors of our business. He agreed, so I TM my H and told him I wanted to be on the board. He called, said fine, asked why and I told him that if we D, I will have my own ownership and I wanted representation on the board. He then called me later and said "you had wanted to set a time to discuss D, when do you want to meet?" I said I wasn't sure and that I still needed to keep the health insurance so wasn't sure what to do. Then I asked him if he had written anything down (which we had talked about him doing before). H said, nothing official. I said the only reasong I wanted to pursue anything was to secure my ownership in the company,as it was the only thing I had left for my future. H then said, that's not true, there was alot I could still do. I got semi-upset and said what he was saying was not true and I did not want to continue the conversation. I said, we have no savings, no retirement, no home equity, so how could he say that. Then I said - I have absolutely no future because of YOU! And I was very angry about that. Told him to fax or email me whatever he was thinking and we would see how far apart we were. YIKES - was it terrible? I didn't cry - voice got quivery, but no raging, tears, name-calling, etc. HELP!

[sandi2]

Rusty, I'm going to be very straight with you here. I can't help but wonder if it is all about the business more than the love relationship. If it is the business, then you need to handle your end of the business and get the M out of the way if you no longer have love for your H. If you want a M with him, then something has got to give, and I'm not talking about the business.....I'm talking about you! Look at what you said here:

Sometimes I feel like if I let the anger go and do the 180, I am giving approval to what he is doing and I don't approve. Our relationship has always been with me in control - so the loss of control has been huge for me.

The fact is, honey, you do not want to give up your control! I would suspect that you have tried to have your way all your life by showing how angry you can get if things don't go your way. Perhaps, you were that way as a child and threw fits when you didn't get your way. While you were growing up, did you control friendships, dating, etc. by spewing your wrath on others if they did not do what you wanted? Perhaps you raised your children to know that they better do what you wanted or they would have to deal with your anger as a result.....and you certainly tried to control the MR with your anger. Maybe I'm way off base here....but you have admitted that you did try to control your H and your tool was your anger. You have an issue with wanting to be the one in control. I suspect that is why you want on the board of the business.......to be in control of it. (I don't really blame you for that part...but what I'm saying is it all goes back to the same old problem that you have had.....maybe all your life.)

Men get tired real fast of women that use their anger to get their way. Men don't like to feel they are being controlled by their W's anymore that we like to feel that our H's are manipulating us.

Ask yourself why you are afraid of loosing control? You said that you were afraid to use the 180, etc. b/c you thought he would look at it as though you were condoning what he was doing. I can't remember if those were the exact words, but something to that effect. You are actually afraid to use the DB techniques b/c of the fear of giving up the control. I am worried about you, sweetie, b/c this is more serious than I think you realize. Listen, I have grown children also, and when your grown son has to tell you what your son told you.....you better wake up fast! I mean it. He is telling you what other people would love to tell you but they don't dare! He is telling you what you don't want to hear about yourself b/c he sees what you have turned into now (much less the future) and he loves you and it hurts him to see his mother this type of creature. I use that term on purpose b/c that is what we become when we allow anger to rule our lives.....we become like some type of monster. It's ugly and the older we get the worse it becomes until we loose everyone around us. I am telling you that I have known people like this and it is sad to see them ....them (nobody else) do this to their own lives. You need professional help and probably more than what the Priest can do for you. You need psychiatry help. No unlearned counselors....I mean a "real" professional.

You have got to give it up Rusty.....the anger, the control, the fear.....or it is going to eat you up alive. You cannot even begin to work on that list I gave you until you get help with these other issues b/c that is what is consuming your life right now. You have even talked about trying to see if your H has OW. That was number 10 on the list.....no spying.

To be very blunt......I don't think he will ever come back to the woman he left...and who could blame him? Who wants to live with somebody like that? Try to put yourself in his place.....would you want to live with him if he treated you like you have treated him? Do you have a close relationship with your children? Now be honest. I don't mean that they come around sometimes, but I'm talking about a very close loving relationship, or do they walk on eggshells around you? Do you blow up and lose control of your temper whenever they do something you don't like?

At first, your H probably would think that doing a 180, etc., would be a "trick" since you've tried all this other stuff on him. That is why it has to be for real. You have to make these changes for YOU and it has to be for life....not to just get him back again. That is the same as just getting your way again. And, it won't work this time. You have got to change, Rusty, for your own sake, and for those that still love you....before it is too late.

Please, please get professional help ASAP! You need to know why you feel that you have to be the one on in total control of a R or business or whatever. Most of all, you need to know why you have this anger issue. It is nothing to sweep under the rug.

I know this has felt like a slap in the face, but I am trying to tell you what I am seeing in your posts and I think you are being honest, but I don't think you really see how serious your problem is and how it is totally destroying your life. You can turn around, Rusty. You have a lot of living to do. You have children and parents that love you.....and hopefully, you will have your H again, but it is going to take a long time and a lot of hard work. The decision is yours.

My objective was not to be offensive, and if what I said was way off base, I apologize. I really hope that it was off base! But I pray that you will take a good long look at yourself and decide what you are really like on the inside of your soul and what you need to do to make improvements. A lot can be done without professional help, of course, but what I've been talking about......I don't think you can do it without some serious counseling from a professional. Consentrate on Rusty and what you need to do for yourself and the lifelong improvements you need to make and don't worry about what your H may think or anyone else.....just do what needs to be done.

Take care.

Sandi

[Rusty]

Sandi - alot of what you say is or has been very true. I have had counseling and am doing alot better with anger issues. I definitely feel a need to be in control - but less so in other areas of my life. My kids and I are very close - this has really brought us alot closer. We talk alot about deep and real issues and thoughts. I think that business has always been my strong area, and not H's, so that is one area I have always felt the need to, at the very least, step up. My H is a person unable to make clear decisive decisions(until now with wanted to S), so I have always been forced to be the one in control. And you know what, I haven't always wanted to be! I just wish for one second H would step in and make a decision. But I also realize that alot of the times when H would make a decision I would criticize and not agree. I really worked alot on changing that.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about, why would he want to be with me as the person I was at times, but believe it or not, there were some pretty great times and I am a very caring, kind, giving person. And I am working on changing in many ways and keeping the good - I just backslide a bit. I think you have over reacted to the amount of anger/control issues you think you see. But I really appreciate your perspective and it does cause me to think alot. And, like I said, alot of what you said is on the money. I think if I look over your post on a daily basis, it will prove very helpful in evaluating my daily interactions. But as I work on myself I am becoming less interested in fixing my M. I really go back and forth on that one, but I have decided to make the changes and let the chips fall where they may.
After our conversation about the business and future- H had our D for the evening, had to take her to a sports awards banquet. H dropped her off early, parents were supposed to come a 1/2 hour later, and H came looking for me. He thought I had dinner plans with OM??? I was actually having dinner with my mom. H stopped in the restaurant and sat with us and we had a very nice conversation, the three of us. I really am working on using the DB techniques and like I said, wherever it ends up, it does. At least I will be alot happier and healthier.

[Sophie]

After a few months, I thought things were going great and pushed to have him come home. His apartment rent was up in August and I didn't want to continue spending the money on it. The pushing, of course, didn't work and drove him away.

Rusty,,,this is Me too!(I hope I do this color quoting right)

and this:

He probably will never file for D, it will be up to me, he is a procrastinator and unless there is a really big reason, he just won't. No money, no urgency, etc. Is there hope??? What do I do, he seems to be so content without us and pleased to be on his own without any responsibilities. How do I make him miss us and realize how important family and marriage are? I hate this so much. I have prayed and read and cried, it has just been such a long time! Any thoughts would be helpful!

I wasn't the best spouse and took alot of granted - always had the control and upper hand,

ME TOO! Plus, I am 10 years older...so I've understand a lot of this is about my H experiencing growth that I had...like having his own place. He never lived on his own...though, he was very independent and not under his parents control. Missing out on some of the stepping stones in life definately added to my H's need to 'replay' what he missed.

I understand and totally 'get' about the controlling wife...it is importatnt to have freedom and individuality in a marriage. That seems to be one of the major 'growing pains' that marriages go through. I don't want the marriage we had, I am not the same...there are benefits from his MLC,,,and maybe my own MLC...

I don't know anymore the difference between when I am controlling, or being a conscientious adult. I don't know when I am being bossy or when I am not allowing myself to be treated with utter disrespect.

And....that's when I detach

[Rusty]

Oh my goodness - we are very similar! Age might be a factor -although women (I think) go through it earlier, I know I did, but I never behaved like he is now. And I totally get the confusion as to what is inappropriate controlling and being responsible. My H would never make a decision on anything, so I had to - which made me controlling??? I always felt I was trying to drive him towards the potential I knew he had - but I guess that way being bossy and pushy. I just had some stuff happen today that I totally realize that if I were a man would have been handled soooooooo differently! It really pisses me off - you know - we get labeled the "bitch" but a man would be assertive, type of thing!
Your color worked great - thanks for listening and being there!

[sandi2]

Rusty, I am so glad to hear that you and the kids are close. I was concerned about that. Also, that you have been to counseling about the anger issues. You know, just b/c we have these issues do not make us a bad person! Things happen in our lives that we have no control over.....usually when we are young and feel so helpless, but anyway we all can probably identify with anger issues at some time or another.

I feel a lot better after you sent me this last post. You and Sophie do have things in common. I can also understand what it is like to have a H that shows .......shall I use the word...."weakness" in certain areas. When that happens, the woman feels as though she has to be the strong one in the family. There were things that happened in my family that I felt the same way.....as though I had to make the decisions and be the stronger one.....when in my heart I wanted a man that I could lean on and him take on the responsibility. So, I do understand.

I was worried that it was getting out of control and you were not seeing that it was taking over your life and I sure didn't want it to cause you to loose your R with your kids.

We all have room for improvement, as I have said. I could work on me from now on and never get enough improved! I hope you realize that I said what I did from a heart of pure concern. Being a lot older.....as I told you, I have seen a lot of women who allowed the years of anger turn them into horrible, bitter old women that nobody wanted to be around. I think bitterness is about the worst thing that can happen to women. I don't know anything that can bring about bitterness/anger more than a D. So, if things don't work out between you and your H......I hope that you have enough determination not to let that happen to you and just grow and improve yourself in all areas of your personal growth as an individual. If you have good business skills and the "smarts and guts" that a woman has to have in today's business world, I say....go get 'em. As Sophie said, there still seems to be a double standard in the business world where men and women are concerned, so you have to be tough to survive.

A lot of what you said about your H in your post.....I can fully understand from your POV. It is hard to be the stronger personality in a M and then when they decide (finally) to step up and make a decision......to keep our mouth shut! I have been guilty of the same thing....that is why I could see what you were saying.

When my daughter was diagnosed with very brittle Type I diabetes at 15 and we were told she would probably never live to see 20, I did not realize that my frustration of dealing with everything I went through with her (alone, I felt) had turned to anger. When it was pointed out to me....it crushed me b/c I thought I was being strong. I had to be b/c her dad stuck his head in the sand and I had to be the one to take care of her and deal with all her emotional junk and the rebellion, etc. I thought I was covering it up by showing a personality that was laughing and being nice around people.....but there was one person that saw through that and pointed it out to me. So, I had to deal with my own anger issues about the unfairness in what had happen to my daughter and to our lives.

Unfairness can cause us to be mad. Life is unfair, people are unfair.......it gets to be too much for us. But, I just want you to know that I do understand, Rusty, even if it may have sounded like I was coming down on you a little hard.....I do understand, really.

I do stand by what I said about you would have to make those changes for YOU and for life. And, that it will take a long time to convince your H that you really have changed. However, as you or Sophie one mentioned.....you may not want him by then. That happens. The important thing is that you are working on you! You see what needs to be improved and you are working on it.

There are two words used on this board more than any others and that is "time and patient". Because that is what it takes to hang in there for the loooooong haul. If you want him back badly enough, then don't give up on him. However, I do think you need to detach and just focus on you and your self improvements and your business and of course, the kids. As you work on all of that.....if he comes around and you still want him....that's fine. If he comes around after seeing the new and improved you.....and you don't want him and have decided to move on without him....it is his loss.

Detachment gives you time to think about a lot of things and I personally believe it is good in most stitch's where there are M problems.

Thanks for responding to me. I feel much better by what you said and I hope you will stick with it. Keep working on that list.

Take care,
Sandi

[Rusty]

Sandi - thank you so much for your words! I would like to know more about you - I think you are very wise. I had so much happen today that was relating to anger and control that it felt like God was definitely leading me to pay attention to those issues! And you were the one who brought alot of those things to my attention. Or at least made them come to the forefront again. It is really hard to feel like you have to always be the strong, decisive one - like you said - sometimes you want a man to take charge once in a while. It would be nice if it was the H. I always had to dole out the discipline, the decisions on if the kids could or could not do something, where we would go, what we would do, who we would see and not because I wanted to, but because no one else would do it. It got to be such a burden that I think I got angry about it! Was that productive - NO but it happened. I had a dad who was very decisive, made all the decision and doled out all the disipline - so do I see the parallels? Yup! But still, it would be nice to just melt into someone else and have them be your guy!
If it wasn't for my kids, I don't know where I would be. How they became such great adults (well the ones who are) is beyond me. My middle son (22) is a real challenge, but he is so much like his dad it is scary. Love him to death, but really seems to be on a downward spiral. But I am there for him no matter what, and my karma teaching really come to play here.
Thanks Sandi - it is people like you who read between the lines and makes great observations that cause us to really think. Thankyou!!!