I don't think she quite falls into the "good Christian girls don't" thing. When we first married, she was a bit more adventureous(?). Remember, she had much more experience and knew what she liked. She was a real wild child as a teenager and young adult. Over time, her repertoire has reduced to one or two things and I can't remember the last time oral was an option either way. She does go out of her way to make me feel that my level of desire is abnormal. She delights in telling stories of her friends who are on the weekly, monthly or quarterly plan and how they are "normal". She has never forgiven me for telling her about my friends for whom twice a day is normal! I am checking my own motivation for counseling. It is fairly low and with money the way it is, I just can't see doing it. Right now I have continued to work on a civil friendship and that is going well. Is is possible to continue as such for 11 more years? I don't know. I have been focusing on the parts of her that I don't find attractive and this has reduced my need for her. Maybe if I just think of her like a sister, it will be all good!
OK, if anyone is still reading, I have an update and a question. I have continued to work on my friendship with my wife and we are getting along much better. She is even confiding in me with problems she is having with other parents at the school and similar issues that are bothering her. I have made an effort to be of more help around the house and to get some projects done that I have left undone for one reason or another. She was right in complaining about those. Now, we still have not had any kind of real sex since just after Christmas. I only look her in the eye even when she is naked as I am working to shut off all physical desire for her. Question: What does this do to her? My goal is not to punish her (don't throw me in that briar patch!) but to get me to a point where I can live next to a woman indefinitely without having sex. ie, conversion to a sister. But will she see this as rejection even though she has no interest in sex? I am not looking to get her to pull the trigger here. My primary motive is self preservation.
"My goal is not to punish her (don't throw me in that briar patch!) but to get me to a point where I can live next to a woman indefinitely without having sex. ie, conversion to a sister. But will she see this as rejection even though she has no interest in sex? I am not looking to get her to pull the trigger here. My primary motive is self preservation."
Is this really your goal - is it what you genuinely want, and if so why? You say your motive is self preservation, but if you'll excuse my directness, I would say that's a complete avoidance of your responsibility to yourself. If the cost of a man surviving within a marriage is that he has to permanently quell his desire for his wife, then I would say that that is simply too high a cost. Its completely unnatural and inherently unmasculine.
I mean honestly - what are either of you going to get out of embarking down this arid road?
Its not that I don't have sympathy with your situation, but there are other healthier, more productive, more masculine paradigms to work from than the "In order that my natural sexual desires not make you feel uncomfortable, I will pretend that you are my sister not my wife" one!
If you want to know my perspective on the SSM issue - which I think is part of a much broader tapestry - look through my previous posts (there aren't many!).
Hit me back if you want some more specific ideas, but I can virtually guarantee you that your proposed self-denying approach will end in disaster.
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
Strong, Thanks for your post. My goal is to be able to preserve a functional marriage relationship that allows my children to grow to adulthood in a two parent home. That trumps most everything else. My wife is inherently very low drive and due to our history has become a no drive with a biting tongue on the matter. She has stated during counseling that she "Despises" me. I will admit she had plenty of reason to at the time, most of those reasons are now gone with only a marginal change in her attitude. Clarification - our relationship is much better, our sex life is the same or worse. I believe that I have found a strategy that allows us to have a pretty decent relationship, just no sex. In reading your posts, I found a line where you say that sex is a want not a need. That is where I am now. I am unwilling to put myself into a position where I am subject to my wife's ability to emasculate me in the bedroom. This may be cowardice, but I don't need any more rocks in my pack as I climb out of my hole. I remember asking my Dad once if he enjoyed the work he did. He looked at me like I was crazy and told me "of course not. But it puts food on the table." That is my opinion towards my wife and sex. Sure I would love a great sex life, but I KNOW it is not coming from her. It is more important to raise the kids in a stable home. Remember, it is her FUNDAMENTAL perspective that I am oversexed and abnormal and should be PROFOUNDLY grateful for whatever I do get. Our past conselors have sided with her on this (women). I would be more than happy to hear more from you on this and I am sure that I deserve a 2x4!
OK, if anyone is still reading, I have an update and a question. I have continued to work on my friendship with my wife and we are getting along much better. She is even confiding in me with problems she is having with other parents at the school and similar issues that are bothering her. I have made an effort to be of more help around the house and to get some projects done that I have left undone for one reason or another. She was right in complaining about those. Now, we still have not had any kind of real sex since just after Christmas. I only look her in the eye even when she is naked as I am working to shut off all physical desire for her. Question: What does this do to her? My goal is not to punish her (don't throw me in that briar patch!) but to get me to a point where I can live next to a woman indefinitely without having sex. ie, conversion to a sister. But will she see this as rejection even though she has no interest in sex?
Mine did. And then she sought her sexual, youth and beauty validation in the arms of another man, half her age.
Your thread fascinates me, as you sound SO much like my own sitch. My wife is a beautiful, fit, sexy woman, and yet she has little to no desire. But if I "shut it off" in an effort to be able to cope with her lack of sex and affection, and treat her like a sister or a roommate, it bothers her greatly.
She likes to be thought of as sex-Y, without having to have any ACTUAL SEX with me.
Seems we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
I don't think she quite falls into the "good Christian girls don't" thing. When we first married, she was a bit more adventureous(?). Remember, she had much more experience and knew what she liked. She was a real wild child as a teenager and young adult. Over time, her repertoire has reduced to one or two things and I can't remember the last time oral was an option either way. She does go out of her way to make me feel that my level of desire is abnormal. She delights in telling stories of her friends who are on the weekly, monthly or quarterly plan and how they are "normal". She has never forgiven me for telling her about my friends for whom twice a day is normal! I am checking my own motivation for counseling. It is fairly low and with money the way it is, I just can't see doing it. Right now I have continued to work on a civil friendship and that is going well. Is is possible to continue as such for 11 more years? I don't know. I have been focusing on the parts of her that I don't find attractive and this has reduced my need for her. Maybe if I just think of her like a sister, it will be all good!
NTE, let me know if you're able to pull this off. I could, and can, and DO, but only about 25 days a month. And it does make those 25 days much more bearable than they used to be, lying next to her and wanting her all the time, and being rejected.
But the other five days are, alternately, filled with anger, resentment, sadness, pity (for her and for me), and pain.
It's no long-term solution, but it can get you thru the day.
Puppy, It is probably almost the same with our wives. My wife is 34, very fit and attractive, she runs 1/2 marathons. That is a great line, she wants to be sexy without the sex, at least with me! She parades around without any clothes in our room or bathroom, but gets upset when I ogle her. "Don't look at me that way!"
I'm convinced that there's not much one can do about the whole "clashing libidos" thing unless BOTH parties are willing to work -- and damned hard, too -- at it. And even then, results are mixed.
But this whole theory of "change starts with YOU, and then your spouse will have to react to your changes," in my opinion, doesn't work when it comes to something as inherent as a sex drive.
Most of the books I've read merely help you to DEAL better with it -- sometimes MUCH better -- and grow individually. But I don't see a lot of better sex going on, sadly.
Puppy, Thats's kind of what I have been afraid of. As long as it is my wife's fundamental belief that I am abnormal and all associated pain and suffering is my problem to deal with as it results directly from my issue, I see no hope for change. This is such a frustrating double standard. Better learn how to talk and meet all those needs that they have, those are "real issues".
She parades around without any clothes in our room or bathroom, but gets upset when I ogle her. "Don't look at me that way!"
How can we win?
Next time she tells you not to "ogle" her, immediately grab a bathrobe or towel and throw it to her as you make a simple response of, "then stop punishing me", and walk off.
Call her on her game.
NOPkins
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
