Wandering Poster - Sweet 16?

[Virtually_Handsome]

- I understand what you are saying, but....
i wish it would be "ands" not "buts". for me usually "buts" are telling that you feel the need to defend yourself, feel being judged in some way. "ands" would be more of a conversation where different doesn't mean right or wrong and would be evaluated by the premise of working or not working, applicable or not to your situation. so i gather my way of expressing my thoughts came about stronger than intended, please keep in mind that it was not
my intend.

I wasn't offended. I am frustrated, perhaps! I did get defensive, that's something I need to work on, so this was a good exercise! I posted all of those tidbits, since I figured there was a good chance you hadn't read through all 15 previous threads! Though they are good fun!

- I think the first thing might be that the reason for going to the C was to get help with depression. That might explain the direction things have gone so far. The C quickly, and I would have to say correctly, figured that my relationship with W was at the root of the depression, in large part.
my understanding of the roots your depression is that it partly biological - you are predisposition by your biological make up (that's were ad, vit, exercise can help to a degree), partly by your reaction to situation you are in (this where cognitive-behavioral/solution-focused therapy works best). the difference between "my relationship with W was at the root of the depression" and "i have 50% responsibility in how r progressed" is that in second approach you do have control over what is your part is and it is right in your face and you can choose to do the same or change.

I have to think about this a bit more. I think I gave too much control of the R to W, and I have to figure out how to get it back.

- Remember that I have not even been allow to touch W in more than 2 years, and have not ML for almost 3 and a half years.
no one can make you do anything - you have agreed to this

I don't know that I agreed to it. I can do this, or one of us can leave. For now, I have chosen to do this, but I have not agreed to it.

- W has told me that she has never liked sex, and never had an O. I took this as her telling me it wasn't my fault,

it would be speculation on my part but i would consider - if it is biological - sensory/tactile issues, some other organic mis function, or psychological - due to past abuse issues
(it does not have to be something major like full blown incest - even unwanted touching may have similar consequences), or due to cognitive issues (sex is dirty, or not suppose to be pleasurable, or some other beliefs)

It could be any of those, though I think it is another control issue. She made it clear when she brought this up that she wasn't interested in doing anything about it, so for now it doesn't matter.

- I took this as her telling me it wasn't my fault, C seemed to think it was much more likely a shot at me, since that would be my fault. I don't know if I agree, but she could be right.

it is all in interpretation. you can see it here clearly. and usually we have "mixed agendas" so it may be more than one meaning that we are relaying with one message. even if it was a shot - it is up to you to take it or not. if it was a shot then it usually happens when people feel attacked and need to defend them self.

I didn't take it as an attack, so if it was, it missed!

- A few months ago I tried to direct a kiss to actually miss her cheek and hit her mouth. She compared that to attempting rape. Seriously.

it makes me really sad to hear that. not only that she draw that conclusion but because i do not hear anything about a conversation after between two of you which would help her to express why she felt that way and i do not hear that conversation happened of expressing your pain as well.

That was the essence of the conversation. To expand a little, when we went to Retrouvaille, I was able to express in one of the exercises how the lack of physical contact hurt me. So, she agreed to some kind of contact, like a hug, every day. Which she did once.

- A year ago, maybe a year and a half, W and I had a discussion where I got to the point of talking about leaving, though really pretty calmly. She "told" me that I couldn't leave while she was in school, and then told me that she didn't have time to work on our marriage.

it is not about your w "telling" you - it is about you agreeing to those conditions.

Like I told Ali, I did agree to that, at the time. It was the right thing to do for the kids.

- About a month ago was the incident when the kids (10 and 13) were not working efficiently enough for her. And she told them that she had a job now, and she could leave.

it is not a parent-child conversation. if i were you i would address it in a way that for the sake of children to ask her to decide first between two of you and then relate it to the kids. her statement os also somewhat telling that she might feel really alone in the family and see kids as being on your side.

I think she does feel alone. Though the youngest, especially, thinks she walks on water. She has said she feels like she doesn't belong here. I think she has done it to herself. I was too surprised to react at the time. If it happens again, I will be ready.

- Whenever we have a "discussion", there is really only one answer. If I agree with her right away, she asks if I really agree, or am I just saying it to shut her up. But, if I don't agree with her, we get to argue until I do. So, now I just agree, I have to admit even if I don't agree. But there is really no point in arguing, so it doesn't matter. Of course, that is the passive aggressive bit that the C said that the controlling personality often brings out.

for me what you c said is similar to say that passive aggressive breads controlling features. you know that r is like a dance. it is complimentary, just read your description. what i hear that it worked for you for all these years but now you are outgrowing this arrangement.

Hmmm, this is an interesting thought.

- If we actually get tot he point of working on the marriage, I am sure that we will get farther into my 50%.

i wish you would get into your 50 regardless of working on the marriage or not - it is about you and if you will not work on it now you'll ended up with the same predicament

I am trying to do this, starting by getting myself together so that I can give my best.

- We did talk about how her reaction to being asked to see a C would be telling. If she doesn't want to work on the M, I don't think I am interested in waiting for her to want to.

seeing a counselor for herself may be different from seeing a counselor for your m. when person sees ic often means that they acknowledged they have issues they want to resolve which may not be where she is. altho both of you acknowledge that you have issues in your m.

I think she needs to see a C for herself. I think the way to encourage that to happen is to get her to see one for me, rather than the marriage. We'll see how that works out!

- She seems content with her life as it is, she has her kids, a nice house, enough, if not plenty of money, and she can do whatever she want beyond that. I don't think she has any motivation to change.

if she mentioned leaving - she is thinking, she might have motivation to change altho may not in a direction you are would want

Perhaps so. She hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think maybe because she realizes that I would not fight it. It think that her previous threats were a means of trying to control things, and I have taken that away.

- My goal? First, to get myself well, so that I know I am giving my best.

what are the markers that will tell you where you are in the progression to the goal?

First step is to feel more energy, and get back to doing things I want to do!

((((((Firekeeper))))))

Thank you! I'm glad you found my thread!