Wandering Poster - Sweet 16?

[Virtually_Handsome]

Hey Jeff, wow, that was a revealing post, some things struck me, about the assumptions you are making (?) my friend has a big thing about how people make assumptions in Rs, so I'm going to see if I can help any at all here...hope you dont mind! First off..

No, I don't mind!

I understand what you are saying, but....

Jeff, you said no BUTs !!!

Well played, Ali!

W has told me that she has never liked sex, and never had an O. I took this as her telling me it wasn't my fault, C seemed to think it was much more likely a shot at me, since that would be my fault. I don't know if I agree, but she could be right.

I dont agree either, and maybe this C is not so good !? I wouldnt say it was "your" fault at all. Your W was trying to confront the issue by telling you and who knows, blame you maybe...did you talk about it with her at the time? I saw a documentary about women being unable to orgasm, their loving partners tried everything, but still nothing.

I think W was trying to make me feel better, actually. Not sure it worked!

I think that for some woman its about fear... of letting go. Do you think it could be linked to her controlling personality? Why do people try and control everything? (With woman it is typical to want to control the home environment, hence fixating on details of cleaning and laundry, thereby masking the real issues). With an O, you are out of control. I think you could be like Errol Flynn in the loverman stakes and she still wouldnt O Jeff. Have you read up on any of this? DID YOU TALK TO HER ABOUT IT ??

I ABSOLUTELY think it is about control. I am convinced of it. I think the idea of being out of control of herself scares her to death! She has only mentioned this once, in 23 years. Though the signs that she didn't like sex were strong enough. Very infrequent, at best, and always hurry up and get finished. When we did have this conversation I said there were people that could help, she made it clear she wasn't interested.

She "told" me that I couldn't leave while she was in school, and then told me that she didn't have time to work on our marriage.

...well, she has you under control then! I guess you have a choice no matter what she says, so you could have chosen to go ahead and leave anyway, why didnt you?

One word answer? Kids. It was better to wait until the stress of school was done, and then see if she wanted to work on things.

About a month ago was the incident when the kids (10 and 13) were not working efficiently enough for her. And she told them that she had a job now, and she could leave.

I thought this was wierd at the time..an empty threat. If that were true, then why doesnt she leave? Whats keeping her there? Why does she want to stay in a loveless M with no physical intimacy? Is she afraid of change, of being alone, does she love you really but she has gotton so closed off and gnarled up over the years thats she cant show it?

I think it comes down to security. So, maybe fear. But, as long as she is married to me, she has her kids with her, a nice house, and at least some level of security in the long term, from retirement funds that would be cut in two if we D.

If she doesn't want to work on the M, I don't think I am interested in waiting for her to want to. She seems content with her life as it is, she has her kids, a nice house, enough, if not plenty of money, and she can do whatever she want beyond that. I don't think she has any motivation to change.

Well this is a major assumption Jeff and you could be totally wrong on both counts. As an outsider whose never met your W, she sounds anything but happy. She sounds bitter to be honest. Bitter and unhappy and her soul is not signing, thats for sure. What makes you think she is content? Does she smile alot? Does she hum and sing to herself as she goes about her chores? Does she hug and play with the kids alot and laugh with them? (maybe she does, I'm asking you to prove it here!) Does she have a healthy loving R with you?

I don't think she is happy. I don't know if she has ever been happy. I don't know if she wants to be happy. Control, again, on that one. And I think she is bitter, both about things I have done, and about the way she sees herself. In hindsight she claims she wishes she had never stopped working when we had kids. I think she has really devalued what she has done. I never have, or at least I know that I have tried at every turn not to. She seems more interested in what "society" thinks than what I think. She does play with the kids quite a bit, and seems to enjoy her time with them. I have to admit that I am assuming a bit when I say she is content, as opposed to happy. She is usually a proactive person, and she isn't doing anything to change the situation, and hasn't for a long time.

Or is she trapped in a Cold War at home? For christsakes, shes never had an O! I wouldnt be surprised if she was unhappy and unfulfilled !! That could be a huge disappointment for her or frustration. She may have given up on herself and its no wonder she refuses to sleep with you (its not about you though). I was amazed to read that you think she is content. I think Jack said she may be apathetic?

You know, it may not be about me. At some level, I am sure it is not. There is a lot that is about me, too, I think.

Plus... goes back to asking her, you said to me it was a good idea. Why dont you do it? What are you afraid of? Just go now, step away from the PC, say W....I was curious, are you happy?

It's a sure path to an R talk that I don't want to have. But I will be having it soon. I promise!

So just saying, we all do it, I do it, you seem to be doing it, the only way to know how someone really feels, is to communicate with them. Unfortunately in yuour sitch, well as in lots of here, thats whats largely caused us to be here I would say - lack of communication. Instead of talking and finding solutions, people retreat, into themselves, into resentments, into an OP.

Communication, as usual, is at the root of it. So, we sent to Retrouvaille two years ago, where the whole point is a method of communication. We got home, and she immediately rejected it. She said (I don't remember the exact words) that communication wasn't the problem, that I needed to change.

Jeff, I agree with Lisa, its a sad state of affairs that its a bonus your W doesnt hate you. She has a lot to answer for and a lot of work to do on herself and I imagine she would be very resistant to speaking to a C. Again, not about you or the M, but she has got to want to change, right? And embrace happiness.

I think the best chance of anything good happening is getting her to a C. I think her control issues will make that a real challenge. I don't feel that she wants to change. We shall see!

But ( ) I think you just need to go ask her. (((((JEFF!))))

I know!

((((((((((Ali))))))))))