Help Me Act AS IF, Part 5

[mishka422]

LMG - Well, we know that you would "ride it out" but will H for your daughter's sake? Given that your D already knows something isn't right and has already read into that the D is looming would it really be for the best for H to stay there under increasing tension? Questions I know there are no good answers to.

I had suggested the "not getting along" instead of the "don't love each other anymore" because it's less of a lie. You love your H, he just says he doesn't love you. Also, when children hear that you don't love each other anymore they tend to get thoughts of "well, if they don't love each other anymore, then maybe they can stop loving me too." No matter how untrue that is, it is the way they feel.

I'm not sure that there is anything more you could do to try to help your D11. You are taking all the right steps for her already. Is your H makeing any suggestions regarding how to handle this with D11 knowing how anxious she is? Is his only concern getting D without hassle or making sure his kids are ok first?

Hugs to you LMG! (((((LMG)))))

[cw68]

There is no good timing, just do the best with it you can. And give her lots of hugs and some counseling too.

[SirPrizeMe]

I wasn't suggesting impropriety re: the fort. Nothing like that at all--only that the issue was not that daddy sometimes camps out with the kids. The issue was that d11 clearly knows we are not in good shape as a couple. What bugged me was that H ignored that part of it.

oh yeah, I totally get what you are saying. I get your perspective. I was only saying - he's not thinking along those lines. He's thinking legalistically. "There's nothing improper... blah blah" Ok maybe he hasn't seen an attorney, and maybe he has. Maybe he consulted with one informally, or he had a one-time consultation. It just sounds like he is thinking and acting with a mind toward legal implications. Refusing to move out until there is an agreement. the remark about "nothing improper."

As for mishka's comment,

Given that your D already knows something isn't right and has already read into that the D is looming would it really be for the best for H to stay there under increasing tension?

you cannot change how your husband feels, but you certainly have control over some aspect of the tension. The "increasing tension" is not a foregone conclusion, though I agree the situation is difficult.

Anyway, she asked if we could ride it out until mid-fall so that D11 could feel settled in her new school. I just don't know what to do anymore, I am so confused and upset and overwhelmed and exhausted.

This is the key point - you feel upset and exhausted. I know how you feel sister. But that's not a way to deliver your best performance.

Somehow you have to get to a point where, you don't like what he is doing, but you accept it anyway, because.... it's his life. Yes, his decisions affect you and you don't like the implications. But, he is deciding, and you don't get to make his decisions for him. So this is the crux of it. you can either struggle against it, or just see it for what it is, admit you don't like it, and admit you have no control over it. Do your best. Let go of the struggle.

I'm not saying "give up", I'm saying, stop fighting HIM. You said your goodwill has been depleted. Fill it back up.

[newnamenewlife]

I wish I knew how to address D11's obvious concerns under the circumstances. We wouldn't want to tell the girls anything definite until a couple of weeks before H moves out. As far as I know, he hasn't looked at apts yet, so I don't know how he could possibly make it happen by June.

If we waited til the fall (per the child psychologist's suggestion), I think we would have to say something to D11 since she knows something is up. But what would we say? If we told her we were having some problems and trying to work them out, I think, knowing her, she would make herself, and us, miserable wondering, looking for signs, etc.It seems wrong to keep in suspense, yet there are no definite plans in place.

I am SOOOOO pissed at H for doing this!!! I'm not fighting him anymore, but I am still so pissed. Yesterday we had an email exchange (very rare) and I asked him if he understood why I was upset that he had not engaged in MC with me. He replied "LMG, we did do counseling. We went for months."

That made me livid, because we did NOT go for months!! We sat in an MC's office about 5 times and H pretty much refused to participate after the first session or two. All he talked about was S from the get-go. To me that is not MC.

ugh.

[SirPrizeMe]

I know EXACTLY how you feel LMG, about the "going to MC but not actually going to MC." I spoke to my individual counselor about my experience and she used a curious word that I thought was just perfect - my wife was "observing", as opposed to participating in couples counseling.

And that's exactly what it was. BUT, I cannot really fault her specifically for that, because she was OBSERVING in our marriage, too. her behavior in marriage counseling was consistent with her behavior from the rest of our life together. Jack3Beans asked me - do I or do I not believe in MLC as a mental health phenomenon? And I do. Which means - what can I say about her observing when our marriage needed her to participate? Not much. She was not up to it. It was a consequence of her mental health event.

Nothing you or I can do about it. "LMG, we did go to counseling. We went for months." What can you say to that? It's just more mumbo jumbo. Like he had an escape planned long ago, and he was just going through the motions so he could eventually make his getaway. MLC boulderdash.

Sorry I don't have any good ideas on how to handle the delivery of the message to your daughter. One thing my individual counselor told me - is that the concerns of kids that age are generally "shallow" and immediate. Will I get to keep my room? Will we have to move? Will I have to change schools? Will I keep my friends? That kind of thing. And so any re-assurance you can provide on those things, and any extra stability you can guarantee there, will be helpful.

I am mind-reading my wife here, and I know that's a no-no, but.... when she thinks of divorce I think she thinks she will be away from me. I will no longer be in her life and she will be free of whatever shackles I represent. It's a near-term, get-me-outta-here thing. Feels like it to me. When I think of the impact of divorce, I think of all the family summer vacations that won't happen; all the prom dates I won't wave to with my arm around my wife; all the graduations and awards ceremonies we won't proudly attend next to each other; all the science fairs and english papers we won't talk through with the kids together. I am missing what I remember from my childhood. I also think of the financial stress over the long term - two households means less disposable income, less comfort.

But I think kids of 9 or 10 or 11 don't think like that. They worry about what's going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month. Stability in that regard, is what they need.

I wish you the best, as always.

[ddstartingover]

SPM - my kids are 9, 11, and 14. I won't be able to give them reassurance of stability. H seems to think all will be ok, and I can stay in the house with the kids----but I don't think I can live here anymore, for a lot of reasons. I also don't know how I can participate in the D conversation when I still feel it is so wrong! I know, LMG, we are still in the same place.

I've read a lot of opinions about how to break the news. My MC says we need to discuss what is to be said and agree on it before we have the conversation. I don't know how we will agree on anything now.

[newnamenewlife]

The child psychologist I spoke with (who my daughter used to see for her anxiety) said that we don't have to say it's a mutual decision if it's not true. She thinks it's OK to tell our Ds that this is daddy's decision, but of course agrees that I should not badmouth him. She thinks it would not be a good idea for him to say something vague like "these things happen" to a child who is so anxious--because then what other things can happen?

So I don't know what he's going to say. I cannot imagine sitting there with him when he does it, but I guess I'll have to.

D11 has been begging us to let her babysit for her sister, so H&I are actually going out to dinner tonight around the corner (we have cellphones of course and neighbors she can rely on if necessary). A miracle. I had to reassure him that I wasn't thinking of it as a date, but thought it would give us a chance to talk about his S plans without worrying that the Ds will overhear us. Is that a 180 or what? Me suggesting we talk about this? But it's also anti-DB to bring it up, so how does that work?

Next weekend we are all going up to our house in the Adks together. It's all so weird.

I feel better lately though. I increased my AD dose a bit (per MD's suggestion) and maybe that is making the difference--or maybe I'm starting to accept this finally. I don't know, but I cry a lot less and I think about other men I might meet in the future, so I guess that's positive. How I can ever trust someone again, I don't know.

[newnamenewlife]

So H&I went out tonight, the first time in ages. We had three glasses of wine each. There were times where we were very emotional and I cried and H stroked my face and I felt like we could easily have started kissing. But then anger would surface between us and the weird coldness from him returned.

He says it's not me, it's him, but then he seems to have all these complaints about me and says he's been unhappy for years. When I asked what to make of all the intense love letters, he says "well, it's not black and white." I told him how everyone I've told has been shocked because we seem so connected. He says his friends aren't surprised, know he's been unhappy, etc. I again wonder why he told them and not me!! I did some validating, but I guess the wine brought out some of my hurt and anger too.

I told him I could never imagine saying "I don't love you" to him, ever. And he said "well, should I lie and say I love you but I'm leaving?"

I'm exhausted. He has not looked at apts, has no real plans to move yet. I know he dreads telling the girls and who knows when he will. I am tempted to just kick him out, but I don't want to be the one to take action for him.

When we got home, D7 was going to sleep. I lay with her and she said "I want you and Daddy to go out more often. In the summer, you could wear a tank top and capris and he could wear shorts. We should get him shorts for Father's Day..."

Made me sad. I still feel like H&I will survive this, which I know is crazy. I know he is completely done, yet I still feel a spark between us, so what do I do? I guess when he leaves, I'll hopefully really accept that it's over.

[cagzmom]

Before H left we did an "Attempt" and went to Vegas (it was a cheap quick vacation..) I REMEMBER so well crying and H being kind. We did have a good time..but as soon as we got on the plane to come home I knew....ihe was going to leave.

Let him go -- I know I know sounds so easy doesn't it. I am sorry for your pain. I am...never thought i'd be here...just know that letting go doesn't mean anything more than you are letting go of HIM and gaining YOURSELF.

[SirPrizeMe]

LMG, I'm sorry, so sorry.

I hate the way this sounds but from everything you've written....you need to gently release him. If you hope to get him back, you need to release him now. He is telling you, over and over, that he needs to go. You need to listen. Honor his wish.

It doesn't make sense to you. I know that. But if you hold him, or struggle, or resist him, then at some point he will start resenting you. At some point he will block out all pleasant memories, and "it isn't black and white" will transform into "it was always black". Holding him tightly is making it worse.

He has this idea in his head that he has to go. I know it is against every fiber in your body that you should agree to break up your marriage, to separate. But that is what you have to do now. You have to accede to his wishes. If you want him back, ever, preserve what you have with him now by agreeing with him.

I know how hard this is. I know it is a nightmare. I know that you can see a simple path toward reconciliation - "let's just go back to normal life, go to work during the day, out to dinner at night... come on, we can work this out." Listen, I had all those thoughts too. It seems soooo simple to you. "Let's just not fight anymore." He can't see it. He can't do it.

You have made a good effort this far. No one should have to do what you have been asked to do. Yet you have worked hard to save your marriage. So far, no joy. The first principle of DBing is - do what works. What you have done has not changed your husband's heart. Doing it more, longer, or more energetically, will not have a different effect. You need to do something different.

At this point, he needs to go. Or at least he needs the freedom to go. He may go, or he may not, but he needs the freedom to do it. He feels the need, just as strongly as you feel the need to hold your family together. My suggestion is to let him lead his life. Let him make his decision and act on it. You don't need to agree, you don't need to help him, you don't need to be excited about it. But I feel like you need to accept it. The best you can do now is allow him to go, with a minimum of guilt and resentment. Preserve yourself and your relationship with him for another day.

You can show him you love him, without pleading for him to stay. This means, admitting you will miss him, but not falling apart. This means banishing the thoughts like "how will I survive?" You will survive without him, for his time away from you. You must, and so you will. If he will ever come back to you, then starting now, you will need to be strong, stronger than you thought possible, stronger than him. If you despair and flounder without him, it will only accentuate his guilt.

You are being asked to do something no one should have to do. It's sad, and it's not fair, but it is. It just is. It stinks. But it is up to you to take the lead. Let him go. Conduct your life with a happy heart, despite your trials. One day, I hope soon, he will see you and want to be with you again.

For now he needs to go.

I am saying this to you, and it is all very clear to me, but for me myself, I find it difficult to put into practice. My situation is similar to yours, and my advice to you is what I am trying to do, daily. Accept it. And wait patiently, while I live the best life I can.