Piece Treaty, not sure if like that idea, seems too close to R talk for my liking . I don't think it would be easy to make a piece treaty without talking what the treaty was all about.
I think the most likely thing is for me to make a piece treaty with myself, stop thinking negative thoughts, I think I have got a big incentive to do that now as I can feel W's commitment, that is definitely something I needed feel. I think I need to let go of the need to feel her remorse or get an apology
As for making love every day, I would if W would let me (make up for all that lost time) but it's calmed down to when the mood takes her. If I try to initiate then I normally get a slap. I'd even like to talk about that but I don't think the out come would be good.
Yeah I used to have NFC, and in the past I would have f'cked up by now, but although I'm not expert I know I have the tools to move forward without talking about things and not have the feeling that we are just drifting through life. It's quite funny now cos I can understand why FG calls me an Advanced DAM.
I really did mean "Piece Treaty with yourself" given you know anything resembling R talk is out of the question. Seems like you did have to sort of walk on eggshells quite a bit tho' until you felt some fidelity from W.
Just come out with it and tell her, "What do you say we draw a piece treaty and stop walking on egg shells and just enjoy each other again?" How do you think she would react to that? Would she be relieved? Would she react negatively.....and if so, why?
Originally Posted By: fb2
anything resembling R talk is out of the question.
Originally Posted By: Lanzo
I think the most likely thing is for me to make a piece treaty with myself
I'm still drawing up the terms of my own treaty in my head.
Lan, yes to make the peace treaty with yourself has to come first and I didn't mean to have sex every day, but what I was getting at was to stop trying so hard to not mess up and walking around on those egg shells and try to relax around each other. I think she is doing the same thing.
In wartime, (well, some wars), both sides would agree to not fight on Christmas Day. It wasn't that they sat down and talked it all out and agreed about everything, b/c the day after Christmas....they would pick the war right back up where it left off. But, they agreed to stop the fighting for that one day of peace for the sake of Christmas and what it stood for. (Now, if you are Jewish, I don't mean for this to be offensive, just trying to make a point.) I suppose that was sort of what I was trying to say in your case. To just agree to try to relax at least for a while around each other and see if you can feel more like your natural selves again. I would not talk R. That would be a killer. (Don't know that this was a very good anology....but hope you get my meaning.)
Quote:
I think the most likely thing is for me to make a piece treaty with myself, stop thinking negative thoughts, I think I have got a big incentive to do that now as I can feel W's commitment, that is definitely something I needed feel. I think I need to let go of the need to feel her remorse or get an apology
Yes, I agree. I also think one of the most healing factors for you at this time is that last statement you made. You....Lan...for your own sake...need to turn loose of the idea of your W coming to you being all remorseful and giving her apology. It may come some day a long time down the road.....and it may never come. That is part of the WAW "thing" that is hard to explain. I am one of those WAS's and I have a hard time explaining it. It doesn't come out very well when I try to explain it. I got in a mess the last time I tried it on the board.....so I kind of stay away from that topic.
May I give you something to think about, if you don't mind me bringing some......."Bible Doctrine" into this. We are taught to forgive those that hurt us and have done really bad things to us. The point of forgiveness, is foryou. It is not b/c she deserves it or asked for it or has tried to earn it. She may or may not "deserve" to ever be forgiven. However, that is not what true forgiveness is all about. True forgiveness is not based on her....it is based on you and it is for you! And....forgiveness does not mean it is forever wiped from you mind...I think only God has the power to do that when He forgives us....but in time we can stop dwelling on the issue that haunts us. The act of forgiving is up to you, the one that has been done wrong.....not whether or not the other person has apologized or felt remorseful for their wrong doing. That is the way the Lord forgives us. We don't deserve it. We can't earn it. But, He does it b/c of Who and What He is.....not us. Therefore, Lan, your forgiveness for your W is based on who and what Lan is as a man......not on who the W is or what she has done or if she deserves Lan's forgiveness, or ever tries to get his forgivness...or if she ever apologizes or feels remorseful. (I think I've repeated some of this, but just trying to make sure I get the point across that I'm trying to make.)
Does any of that make sense? Those are my words and they actually equal to what you said when you talked about a peace treaty with yourself. That's where it needs to start, sweetie.
Take care,
Sandi
P.S. After reading this, I wanted to add one more thing about forgiveness......it has to be an act of your "will" in the beginning b/c you may not have the "feeling" in your heart. By that, you just have to do it "on purpose" anyway and when those moments come up that you have to remind yourself that you forgive her .....and you may have to do it all over several times before it finally stops the haunting and tormenting of your heart. Ok, I'll stop for now. Stay strong, Lan. Love ya, friend.
Last edited by sandi2; 05/15/0802:29 AM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Your last post really deserves a long answer from me but I am a bit tired at the moment but what I will say is that I take on board everything you say. Oh there is one part I can respond to
Originally Posted By: Sandi2
The point of forgiveness, is for you. It is not b/c she deserves it or asked for it or has tried to earn it. She may or may not "deserve" to ever be forgiven. However, that is not what true forgiveness is all about. True forgiveness is not based on her....it is based on you and it is for you! And....forgiveness does not mean it is forever wiped from you mind...
I fully understand this part which is why I said I need to make a piece treaty with myself and stop thinking negative thoughts. To be honest I'm getting much better at that now, I even put up the big red stop sign when I find my mind drifting. So all n all I feel I'm moving on better in that direction.
GFI n All,
I've just completed my 10Km (6.3 miles) road run and despite my pooly knee I did a respectable 1hr 7mins not bad for a first attempt. W says shes immensely proud of me, she even said that she didn't think I would run the race let alone post a respectable time. So I feel on top of the world at the moment.
W and I are going out for a meal to celebrate, she keeps admiring my trim figure the product of all my training. Well I'm looking forward to a good evening.
Well, it is after midnight and I should be in bed and yet here I am re-reading all of Lan's posts on this thread! What a life I have! (lol)
I am not directing this to Lan, even though it is on his thread.....it is just an open question to any of the men and I'll go find my bullet proof jacket before hitting the submit button.
I am sure I am probably opening a can of worms here, but I get goofy when it starts getting late.....but so be it. Here's the thing that got me to thinking about this I am about to ask of you men:
Quote for FG: "Maybe your wife read the book.. She took it to heart.. And is acting "As If" she never had an affair."
I got to wondering.....(frightening, I know), but......in the minds of the LBH's what would be the perfect senerio for a WAW that came back home after an A? I'll take a few guesses for myslef.....like, first beg for your forgiveness, or at least ask.....right? Then you want to talk about the R......right again? But, I get the feeling from a lot of men here on the board that they feel that there WAW's that have returned to the M have not shown enough......ah...remorse. That's it, they aren't showing you they are sorry "enough" for what they did. So, what is the perfect answer to all of this? How sorry should she be and for how long should she show how sorry she is......this is the most important question I would like answered.....how long does she need to pay pentance for her sins? If she has been forgiven, how long must she prove to you that she is remorseful and has to pay penance for doing you wrong?
Why does she need to talk about the R? Why does she have to re-live what happened between her and OM......is it to make you feel better or to answer your quesions of curiousity? To see if she thought he was better in bed than you.....oh that hit a nerve, I bet. Not trying to make all of you hate me.....really! I get sarcastic sometimes, but it is just all part of my charm (lol).
So, work with me here. What is the perfect way a WW (as some like to refer to their wives) should act when she comes back home? What do you expect from her?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, this is a really really interesting angle...I would bet that at face value most men would want the "full-monty" in terms of remorse in order to get some validation for their position - ie standing and fighting for what they believe to be right and proper.
But when they consider it a bit more objectively they might well see that this is unrealistic and not necessarily desirable...that sticking out for this may well be counter-productive and little more than seeking to "prove a point".
An honest and straightforward conversation acknowledging the pain, hurt and the damage that has been done on all fronts and as it stands I would like to give and receive a heartfelt "sorry". TBH I am trying to forget the OM and the last thing I want to do is to rake up old emotions in W. This is about her and me, not him, and I don't want to give him any air-time at all.
Best - GFI
For many of us this process is about creating the future and if I am ever fortunate to be having this conversation with my W I hope I will be able to remember this good intention!
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
Sorry - last attempt at posting got a bit mangled!
Well, this is a really really interesting angle...I would bet that at face value most men would want the "full-monty" in terms of remorse in order to get some validation for their position - ie standing and fighting for what they believe to be right and proper.
But when they consider it a bit more objectively they might well see that this is unrealistic and not necessarily desirable...that sticking out for this may well be counter-productive and little more than seeking to "prove a point".
An honest and straightforward conversation acknowledging the pain, hurt and the damage that has been done on all fronts would do it for me as it stands and I would like to give and receive a heartfelt "sorry". TBH I am trying to forget the OM and the last thing I want to do is to rake up old emotions in W. This is about her and me, not him, and I don't want to give him any air-time at all.
For many of us this process is about creating the future and if I am ever fortunate to be having this conversation with my W I hope I will be able to remember this good intention!
Best - GFI
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
