H is Having Affair after all - Part 2

[25yearsmlc]

Evie,

EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU PURSUE, you end up feeling hurt and or angry or sick. What do you honestly expect to have happen if you have a drink and dinner, (assuming he accepts, and if he doesn't agree, you'll feel the fool)? Do You thin hk you'll Both calmly, and with the best of intentions, solve the financial issues, custody plans, property settlements.....You're hoping even if not consciously, that your h will snap his head out of his ass, and "Get it". You're setting yourself up for preventable self inflicted pain. Realistically, BEST case scenario is all will be well in the dinner, some laughing about "the old times", the kids, the crazy relative he liked and then later, you'll feel used when he goes back to OW or wherever he goes as long as it isn't with you. And the odds of him magically melting and suddenly "getting it" are low, as far as happening at a dinner. This will take time and you are once again, pursuing and it has never helped. Distance yourself. Detach. And
as far as which choice to make about houses, bills, etc. instead of worrying that one scenario benefits him more, or makes him less harmed, etc. FORGET ABOUT HIM for now b/c the finances are ALL about you and the kids. What is best for YOU and the Kids might also be convenient for him but so what? Don't cut your nose to spite your face.

Stop focussing on him and start focussing on what you have left in your life, which is a lot. The more you let h ruin YOUR life, the more he hurts your d's lives and sons' lives. You have to show them that YOU are in charge of your own happiness so they'll learn to do the same in their lives.
Also, I'm biased about the Solicitors b/c I'm an attorney myself, so forgive me if I'm off base here. But I sure wouldn't worry about spending too much on a lawyer (for maybe 2 extra visits) with what is at stake, including the kids. Don't think your h won't try to get full custody if it means he pays you nothing. Many men suddenly become "mr. Daddy", a la Kevin Federline and Britney Spears. He wants full custody b/c then she pays ALL the child support to him. Plus, I'm not clear on the solicitor attitude YOU have. Why hire one at all if all you want to do is come up with a plan of YOUR OWN Making and then what? Have the solicitor "sign off"? Why not listen to what they say and suggest? I'm NOT talking about spending a fortune on legal fees unecessarily, but your h and you are NOT in alignment about the finances or the kids. You are both supposedly trying to do this the cheap way and I've seen
that work exactly once, with a newly married couple who suddenly realized they'd made a mistake. Out of 100 clients that was the only couple to successfully negotiate their own deal, married less than a year, owning nothing and without children. You are not one of those few. Are you sure you aren't liking the increased time and possibility of manipulation or control, through the endless emails and arguments, etc.?? Just asking the tough questions. Actually I am hearing control things on both ends, but I'm no therapist.

You seem to do better when you focus on the kids and YOUR R with them. My DB coach And T told me to reassure the kids that no matter what their dad/step dad does, YOU will never leave them and you will always care most about their happiness. I said this to my D10, (then 8) and it really made a difference to her. She is holding me to that as well, btw. We are moving back to California in part for her. I hope she knows how much we do value her.

I hear WAS's say outrageously self absorbed things so often that many in our society accept it as fact. The WAS typically says things like "I Need (want, have the right to, am owed, etc blah blah blah)--- I have to leave this family/marriage/home to grow and be happy and it won't harm the kids "in the long run", because-uhmmmm---(here it comes -the big lie) "Children do fine in the long run b/c CHILDREN are resilient...." I'm sorry, but the reason that cliche bothers me is b/c it is the exact OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH. WE, as the Adults, are "resilient" and they, the children, have the right to grow and be happy. This isn't about you and fixing your loneliness quickly. It's about saving your children.


Your h's appearance belies his words and actions a bit. But when you start seeing signs of hope, you show him that and then he runs again, or puts his foot down, etc. Don't "see" the signs or at least don't react to them until he hits you over the head with them and says he wants to try again. And btw, if he said that to you right now, wouldn't you hesitate a bit? Of course you would. Rebuiding the M will take time and a lot more work than you'd think (that's been my experience, but it is getting easier with time).
Read how it really is work, mixed with pain, and forgiveness, and sometimes great joy for people in piecing back their M's. (Hence the term "piecing") and what it took to get there. You simply cannot manipulate any more.

Don't you see that it is what you are doing every time you spend energy wondering what he means, and how YOU should say something or what You should do for what goal? doing this or that to.......control him?...to make him come back?...to hurt him?...to guilt him?...all of the above? Isn't it a form of Manipulation in this situation and you simply cannot do that anymore. The reality is that any control you have over him, is an illusion. And a dangerous one since it wastes so much time and life IS short.

I have NOT said there is no hope. I am saying, again, to stop the pursuing and to stare hard at what has worked in your sitch, and what has not. Stop doing what doesn't work and keep doing what does work. If nothing seems to work, then try something you've never tried before. I'd suggest detachment. True detachment will be your biggest 180', your biggest "aha" moment, and the biggest step into your future. I don't know how you CAN get your husband back, but I do know ways you CAN'T, and that's by doing more of the same.

sorry for the 2 x 4. Please see the Solicitor and if you respect them, LISTEN to them and don't come in with YOUR legal plan for them to sign off on....what are you paying them for, proofreading? Let THEM help you figure out a strategy for you that you are comfortable with (as much as you can be under the circumstances) and don't assume your h's comments about firing his "mean" solicitor are true. I don't believe that, or if he did, why tell you? Oh yeah, b/c he's a good guy! Gee, thanks for leaving, dating, divorcing me but not using the worst sleaziest lawyer around. Yeah, thanks...please... Ever wonder if he is in fact seeing his Solicitor a LOT more than you are seeing yours? It's surely possible, and why not assume he'll continue to do so? What is it that makes you believe all his words when his actions are not consistent with them? He's taking actions, and you are RE-acting, only you don't have all the puzzle pieces. You only know what he's doing when he lets you, but for the A.

Also, you discuss his A with OW a lot. I don't want to pound you for this, but seriously. You did something very similar to your first h, didn't you? I mean, isn't that arguable to the outsider looking in? Instead of avoiding that or pretending "that was soooo different" why not embrace it as the mistake it was? Sure, maybe you should have divorced your first h. Probably so since I think you said he had a temper. But why not admit that dating the present h so soon was a mistake that caused undue harm to your ex, and perhaps was too fast as a new couple, and likely way too fast for the kids. Plus your present h resents the hell out of your ex avoiding the responsibility of his own daughters and putting it on your present h. It's a legitimate complaint, as long as it isn't aimed at the girls and as long as no one stresses to them that BOTH their fathers/father figures abandoned them.

They know this. Your daughters feel the rejection every day. Of the two men, it's more the fault of your first h since they are his children. I'm rambling. Just wanted to stop in, and sorry if I banged your head too hard with the 2 x 4's.
j-

[Jen_Jam]

Eve

I hope I'm not too late ... i wanted to put something down Monday but the internet has been broken (again).

If my H had written me this I would have responded

"H

thank you for your email. Sorry it's taken me a while to reply, it really struck a chord with me.

I do of course remember all the good times we had together, and I'll always look back on those fondly. I don't regret one second.

And it's such a shame we have got ourselves to the point we're at now. Life with you was good, and we let everything get in the way of that. I'm sorry too for the part I played in that. We let it all get away from us.

I hope in the future our lives will be happy. I certaintly am aiming for that and I wish it for you too. I have no desire to hurt you and I know that hurting anyone was never your intention either.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about D2 and that you hurt over S1 being upset. I'm wishing for a happy future for ALL of us.

Take care

J"

What do you think? Use some/all of this if it fits for you.

I did read your draft respose ... full of anger, and it seems to me your H has reached out a little, and your angry reaction (while of course, nothing wrong with the anger you feel) may just push him away a little.

[25yearsmlc]

THe WAS spends a lot of time revising marital history. A lot. Sometimes you can just say you don't recall it that way,and or that you'd do SOME things differently if you could, and then move on. Even marriages with 2 people working hard at the M rarely recall the events or their causes, the same way. Very rarely. If it's a really important issue that he has revised, you should say something to the effect of "Wow, I don't recall it that way at all...." and that is not the same as arguing. It's just being truthful, and calm, and Not validating his revision.

Also, your recall and his vary NOW but when he stops the revising, and justifying, some of the memories you have in common will surface, if you let them. DOn't "correct" his perception. Ignore it, or say something that JJ suggested or the above.

In the end, what matters is NOT that you agree on the PAST, but that you agree on the future of the M, and how to achieve it. The only way that can truly happen, is through mutual forgiveness.
j-

[Evie]

Thanks all,

I feel as if i'm not handling this well at all. Everytime i respond, it appears to be through anger and not validating.

I agree with everything you all have to say, i'm beginning to think i myself have a serious problem with anger...

Last night all I could think about was what Saffie had pointed out - that his apologies were empty and insincere. Also that he hates confrontation and will do all he can to keep me onside.

Lets not forget that the A has probably been going on for much longer (maybe a year more) than he has admitted to, so i know about how much deceit he is capable of. Maybe i'm not as capable of forgiveness as I thought I was?.

I know he sees OW on a daily basis b/c of work and she appear to have replaced me as a friend b/c i know about work issues that they have talked about. Stuff he would normally discuss with me.

Also last night i thought why just not file for D?, get it over and done with, he's not coming home, he has lied and decieved for probably most of our R, could he ever change? Probably not.

Another thing is that now he has freed up some cash for himself, he hasn't started teh decorating as he said he would to get the house on the market. I can just about afford the utilities but I'm scared to spend any money.

I have made an appoitment to see my S on tuesday.

I'm sorry to be so negative. Its a year since today since the first bomb. I just thought that I would be further along than I am by now, yet i'm still unable to make decisions.

[Jen_Jam]

I feel as if i'm not handling this well at all. Everytime i respond, it appears to be through anger and not validating.

I agree with everything you all have to say, i'm beginning to think i myself have a serious problem with anger...

OK, it seems to be a cycle - but it only takes one person to break that. One of the most powerful words I learned was a simple "OK". I used it yesterday in a meeting where a supplier was trying to push me to spend more money. I just kept saying "OK". He was unable to fight me. The easiest way to stop an argument is to not argue. it doesn't mean you have to agree, but don't list out the reasons why the other person is wrong. They cannot then fight you.

Last night all I could think about was what Saffie had pointed out - that his apologies were empty and insincere. Also that he hates confrontation and will do all he can to keep me onside.

Yes, that is one possible explaination. But it may not be the right one.

Lets not forget that the A has probably been going on for much longer (maybe a year more) than he has admitted to, so i know about how much deceit he is capable of. Maybe i'm not as capable of forgiveness as I thought I was?.

Be patient with yourself. This is a LOT to forgive, and at the moment you're still reeling as you feel you don't know all the fact. So you're not sure where to begin for the forgiveness. I believe that this stage (forgiveness) will come along much later. At best for now is acceptence.

I know he sees OW on a daily basis b/c of work and she appear to have replaced me as a friend b/c i know about work issues that they have talked about. Stuff he would normally discuss with me.

Maybe, maybe not. Possible your H doesn't look on her in the same way he did you. You cannot see into his head and so can't be 100% sure. You also have no control over who he talks to, so just let this one drop - big STOP sign, remember?

Also last night i thought why just not file for D?, get it over and done with, he's not coming home, he has lied and decieved for probably most of our R, could he ever change? Probably not.

I thought this a lot of times during my sitch, but if you pinned me down it wasn't what I wanted. The release of getting a D would have been great, it would mean I could have started on the road to recovery, but I knew that further down the line I would have asked myself "what if...?" I made a decision that D was going to be an absolute last resort, and that I just had to get my head down and put up with the heartache for the time being. Thats when I GAL'd a lot, made sure I took care of myself. Summer 06 was THE BEST. I went out with friends, made myself happy and just let H sit in his wet nappy. I detached (took practice) and told myself that whetever H decided, **I** would be OK.

Another thing is that now he has freed up some cash for himself, he hasn't started teh decorating as he said he would to get the house on the market. I can just about afford the utilities but I'm scared to spend any money.

I have made an appoitment to see my S on tuesday.

If money is seriously tight (and remember it's tight all round in the UK now, all prices rising, tis' costing me an extra £10 a month to put pertol in the car and I only have a 1.1L!!!! It could be that too, but if you're seeing the L on Tuesday perhaps you could discuss then?

I'm sorry to be so negative. Its a year since today since the first bomb. I just thought that I would be further along than I am by now, yet i'm still unable to make decisions.

Don't you worry, this is a low, but it won't kill you. There are ups and downs in these situations. An up will be along soon. But I feel you are focussing too much of your energy on H, on what he is doing/who he's talking to/what he's thinking. This is DRAINING. You need your energy for YOU. You have no control over H, so don't worry.

I have a project for you ... Project Cheeer Up!
Aim - for you to feel calmer, to accept the situation you are in as t stands now, for you to be strong against your H's anger/relevations.
What are you going to do to get yourself into that place? What will be the first sign that you are getting there?

OK, it may be a year but there are no standard timeframes for these situations. But I do see YOU need to work on YOU, to become stronger. At the moment you are giving your H WAY too much power over you. Don't give your power away to ANYONE, EVER!

[seekpeaceofmind]

Maybe I'm lacking in perception, but I'm not really seeing a problem with anger in you - in fact, I think anger is normal and, depending on what you do with it, healthy in your sitch. You should be angry - but if you turn it inward it may lead to depression and if you give too much outward expression to it, it will interfere with your life. You need to find the right place for you to express it - in C, with BF, in exercise, in journalling, etc.

Its a year since today since the first bomb. I just thought that I would be further along than I am by now, yet i'm still unable to make decisions.

I know what you mean - I think we want it to be over, too (like the WAS only different :(), but it's not. There is no schedule for going through this process and a lot of the advice you see talks about a couple of years to really see change. Plus, your sitch has changed significantly in the last couple of months. Let it be. . . .

[Jen_Jam]

How are you, Eve?

Just checking in

How's the Project coming on?

[Evie]

Hi Jen, Seek,

Project Cheer up - LOL, good project and got me thinking.

I think its a case of mind over matter. In the 6 months that we were s and I didn't know about the A, my PMA was much more positive. My mind still keeps replaying the last few years together, looking for signs that H wasn't happy. I still take that back to 4 years ago after S2 was born and I don't think the A was going on then. H basically wants to be single, no resposibilities or commitments (well not with me/us).

H hasn't responded to the email I sent him, but I know he spoke to his friend about it. When his friend asked H if he was going to come back to me, H replied no.


H is still very angry with me (I have no reason why)and easily misunderstands me and overreacts to situations.

This brings me to another point. I have tried to distance from him, but in my stitch it seems to atagonise him, for example: Last sunday he had the boys for the day and I asked H if I could have them back at an earlier time than usual. He texted back and asked why. I didn't respond. The boys and I had been invited to H's dad's flat for tea (he's a jwellery maker and is altering one of my rings which was ready to collect).

H had to drop some work stuff off later that evening for me and asked the girls where were the boys? They replied out with me. I never go out on a sunday eve b/c i work at home.

H questioned the boys the next morning b/c H txt'ed me and as a P.S added 'How was my Dad? I could tell he was cross.

My point is that i then re-read alot of my emails/texts to H and I do come across as angry, so i have tried to changed my tone and tried to be ameniable when he asking for decisions -he wanted to know what my plans were for the summer holidays, b/c he wanted to plan his time away with the boys and then a break for himself - i had originally just replied that i had no plans and hadn't even thought that far ahead (H has never planned ahead, hates to be organised, and in my mind the time away for himself is probably with OW!). I just thought to myself - girl you need to make some decisions, he may/may not be away with her and i can't do anything about it. In the end i just booked some holiday at work and will think about what plans to make.

I said to H that i hadn't made any plans as yet, i was to worried about money to spend anything atm. He called me after reading my email and said he was taking the boys away camping for one week, if i wanted to he could extend the booking for another week for me and the boys and i could go down for the second week and he would come back.

So i guess my improved attitude will help with interactions with H, if they're more positive then i have less angst, which has to be good.

I think I was just fighting against H, I don't want to be friends, I still want more, but he's not having any of it, however the more friendlier I am, the more helpful he is towards me and in the end I will get more help from him.

I'm also trying to spend more quality time with my kids. Last year we didn't have one barbecue. We have a huge gas one that H has always controlled and i didn't know how to use let alone connect up pipes etc. One night last week i spent time working it all out and washing it all down and practised using it, i feel really pleased with myself, i felt I achieved something. I invited a friend of S1 for a barbecue the next night and they really enjoyed themselves.

Later that evening i went out with a girl from my yoga class and her friends. we went for tapas and drinks. I had a really nice night and enjoyed the company. The next day my new friend txted me and said one of her male friends really liked me, which was really nice, but I didn't have any spark of attraction at all and as i said to my friend its too early for anything like that, i'm happy to meet in a group.

I see the solicitor today, I feel a bit in limbo. H has gone very quiet now on the house front, he hasn't mentioned it and i want to just go over my options with S.

xxxx

[Jen_Jam]

H basically wants to be single, no resposibilities or commitments (well not with me/us).

So did mine But that's all changed now, but it took a L - O - N - G time.

When his friend asked H if he was going to come back to me, H replied no.

Don't believe everything they say! Please ignore this one. It might b how he feels right NOW, but it doesn't mean his feelings will stay that way. This is from the girl whose H said to her face "I can no longer stay married to you".

H is still very angry with me (I have no reason why)and easily misunderstands me and overreacts to situations.

Projection possibly? Try subsituting "I" for "you" in what he says and see if it makes sense. He's a nice guy and he's done a horrid thing. He is bound to feel bad about himself, and while he feels bad he can't even begin to feel good about you.

My point is that i then re-read alot of my emails/texts to H and I do come across as angry, so i have tried to changed my tone and tried to be ameniable when he asking for decisions ..... I just thought to myself - girl you need to make some decisions, he may/may not be away with her and i can't do anything about it. In the end i just booked some holiday at work and will think about what plans to make.....So i guess my improved attitude will help with interactions with H, if they're more positive then i have less angst, which has to be good.

Well done for pinpointing what ISN'T working and experimenting with something you feel might - wait and watch, experiment and monitor results.

I think I was just fighting against H, I don't want to be friends, I still want more, but he's not having any of it, however the more friendlier I am, the more helpful he is towards me and in the end I will get more help from him.

At the moment your eyes are only on the big prize, on getting H back and recomitted to your M. While this is of course a good aim, maybe it's a little high for now? You need to break this down into smaller goals, I think. For example, a football team doesn't win the league on day one. There are many matches they have to play, some they win, some they draw and some they lose, but all these little games add up to the big prize at the end if there are enough wins. A non-footie analogy is losing weight. I want to drop 28lbs. If I then decide that is the ONLY thing that will make me happy then I'm in for a long wait (or should that be a long weight? LOL). No, it's the little celebrations in between , losing half a stone, dropping one dress size, putting a pair of trousers which have become too big away. Small steps.

The BBQ and Yoga - WELL DONE!!! This is FANTASTIC, I really mean that. Achieving something you didn't think you could do which has nothing to do with H is really morale boosting. I had a huge smile on my face when I read this. And it's GOOD to get out and about, and lovely to get a big of male appreciation (even though nothing will come of it). These things are SO important because they give you a break from worrying about H. Belive me, I speak from experience.

Other positives I see in your sitch:
1. H has suggested the 2 year sep before the D. GOOD - this gives you time. There are a lot of people on here whos WAS's want the D like YESTERDAY. He's not rushing it.

2. H is trying to co-parent with you, the camping holiday offer is a good one. To me it looks like he is trying to extend the hand of friendship, and while it's not what you want right now it's all he's going to offer

I remember saying to my H during my crisis that we "were'n't really" married, that for the time being we would be friends only and put the M on the shelf. He seemed to like this. His biggest fear was that i was standing there, metaphorically tapping my fingers and looking at my watch waiting for him to come out of his MLC. When I got over to him that it wasn't like that and I fully ACCEPTED the situation then he relaxed a little. I had mase it clear I didn't want to split, but I wasn't going to push him.

I hope this helps a little - to an outsider it has really looked like you and your H have been fighting. And it's not worked. So try a new style of fighting, play Mrs Nice Girl to him, show him you're fine, life is OK, yes you'd rather not be in this situation but life gets like that at times and you're going to make the best of it. See how it goes.

It will feel unnatural, but in DB'ing in order to get closer to what you really want you have to move away from it. It feels so nuts, I once said it's like the only way you will get a promotion at work is by bunking off, turning up late and going home early. It feels weird but it can work.

OK - I have wittered on enough. Read what I've said and use what fits for you. I'm off now to plant more veggies on the patio and see if Their Majesties (aka the guinea pigs) are OK.

[Evie]

Thanks Jen, Your so positive, I love your outlook and your advice....I have printed it off to keep reading!!!

Thank you so much for your advice.

You h recommitted to M within a year didn't he? Can there really be any hope for me?

D2 got on well with the C, she did open up and she had a little cry. The c has given her some homework and asked her to write a letter to H, but to not send it to him to just take it with her next week and they will work on it. May/may not send it. She said its ok to feel angry and she feels it b/c she loves H and is hurt. She said to paint a face of the ow on a pillow and punch the hell out of it.

Got on well with the solicitor (another £200.00 for peace of mind!!). She basically went over stuff we had talked about before, but maybe I didn't take in at the time for whatever reason.


She gave me peace of mind over the queries I had. I have decided to go for a clean break order, but I'm not filing for divorce. She said we both need to collate all details of our financial details and then she will work out if what H is offering is fair. With the clean break, it means that I could have more in the pot than the 60/40 split. Also I wouldn't be able to claim maintenance off him or anything off him in the future. She said it was gamble, especially if he had good earning potential as I could have less in the pot but claim in the way of maintenance (hope your not confused?)



I think I need to move forward, I'm paying half the mortgage and all the bills on the home and I'm scared to spend. If all goes to plan, I will be able to buy a small home and pay for it outright and just have the bills to cover. It's scary and I'm scared, I'm losing my financial security that I have had with h.



I'm slowly accepting the situation. I want to be friends but I don't want to be friends, if you know what I mean? It seems as if it's all on his terms.... he was talking to me last night about a recurring problem at work about his contract and I felt like saying 'don't talk to me about it, you choose to walk away from me your wife, you've lost the right to confide, take it to your b*tch I can't help you with your problems'. I didn't of course, I changed the subject as I didn't know what to say and didnt really want to get involved in his problems. (not good DB)



I borrowed his car at lunch time today (emergency)and on the floor was a brochure for italy/sicily. He told me was planning a break on 16th August as he asked me to have the boys, so he could plan a break. That's knocked me a little b/c I know he wont be going there alone, he doesn't have any friends to go with, so in all probabilty its OW.

Hve to go now.


xxxx