Drowning, still...

[sandi2]

Hi CBK, I've been trying to catch up on your stitch. Since this is "Mother's Day" weekend and your parents are there with you, I'm not sure this is the right time for me to even post.....or you may not have a chance to look at your thread until later. At any rate, here I go.......

I have taken some things quoted from this past thread you've started. BTW, it seems to me that you have your worst times when you leave on a trip b/c you "think" too much about your stitch, but then when you are home.....you are doing the same thing, but one thing is for sure...you don't have a clue of what "detachment" is all about or else you just flat bum out every time. It will never work, CBK, the 180's, GAL, ..........it won't work until you can get yourself together and emotionally detach from your W. If you don't....you are going to have a complete nervous breakdown. Your body is trying to tell you, now, that something is wrong. Have you seen that doctor yet? If he doesn't think you need AD meds, then you need to see somebody else. I'm worried that you may not even make it through the weekend with all the people in the house without falling apart.

What good would me having her tell the kids and her mom that she is having an A. Would this just push her further away? Does it matter anymore, can she be pushed even further?

You bet your sweet ass it will push her further away! Are you crazy? You don't drop something on her mother like this on "Mother's Day".......what a gift! And what about your own children? Do you want every Mother's Day to be associated with the memory of them being told that their mother was having an affair? Stop thinking about yourself, man! Think about these people that are family and think about what you would be doing to them. You are wanting to lash out at your wife and hurt her, but it is these innocent people that love her that you are going to damage.

I don't know what to do. I love her, but am becoming more and more detached. Right now, don't even want her to come home tonight as I am know I will backslide and ask if she saw the guy...

Nope! That is not detachment. You are angry b/c all you've done is think, think, think, about the stitch. That is the only reason you don't want to be around her. CBK, that is not detaching!

Don't see my therapist for another hour - may explode by then.

Another example of not detaching. When you are/have detached, you emotions are not in this condition to where you are about to explode all the time. When you have detached, your emotions are in balance.

My parents are coming in tomorrow, I don't want to tell them not to come, but I know they are really uncomfortable

They will make the most of it.....only if you behave yourself. If you make snide remarks about your W.....or you get into a scene with her....yeah, that will make them feel pretty uncomfortable! Listen, CBK, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and think about others. It is time to man-up! You need to take responsibility for your part of the breakdown in this M. Yes,she is wrong for her A. But, you had all the signs, as you told about in your first thread.....but you did not do what you needed to do....so get off this train ride and start doing what you need to do NOW!

Yea, mom and dad live in San Diego, I am up in Nor Cal, so they are coming for the weekend. Looking forward to it. My W invited the ladies out for a concert on Saturday in Dixon and then my sis is coming down from Napa with her kids on Sunday.

See? You've got a lot of people here to think about. You have got to get the stitch out of your mind and act "as if" big time. If there is ever a time to put other's feelings before your own....this is it. Put your best foot forward and show off your charm and good manners. Be polite to your W even when nobody is around, b/c you don't want to set off any fireworks. Your parents have raised you right. Now show them the good work they did as parents by being the man and the son that you were meant to be.

This will be fun. W and I just talked about the weekend. At the end, I said let's just get along and act like friends... She was okay with that, but I read everything so wrong right now...

She is willing to make the most of a bad stitch at a bad time. It is you that will make or break it.....not her! You are the one on edge.......I know, I know, you have a right to be and all that....I don't want to hear it! You listen to me like I was your Mama for a minute, okay? You have got to get yourself straighten out and hold it together for this holiday and for the sake of your family and stop being self-centered. That is what you are doing. You may have your mind on your W, OM, and the A....but it all boils down to CBK's feelings! Nobody can make you be a man......you have to do that! If your parents are aware of the stitch.....make them proud, CBK, and show them what you are made of.

Yea, I didn't say those exact words, but did say I was not giving up... probably pissed her off!

Yep! And where does it get you? You lose ground every time you do this. You are so set in your ways that it is hard for you to learn new tricks, but you better or you are going to lose this woman! Stop doing what is not working!

I used to have her picture on my desktop of my laptop, took it off because everytime I saw it, it would take me back.

That is a good step even if you did it b/c you fell apart every time you looked at it. But you have to make steps like that to stop yourself for drowning in thoughts of her. That is where you are truly "drowning", CBK, in your constant thinking about the stitch.

Last night, I just sat there and saw her as a liar that is in a fantasy land, maybe her fantasy will work out with OM, I hope not and I am not giving up, at least right now I am not.

So, why did you do that to yourself? You are not taking care of CBK. I know what a bad back is. I've had one for 41 years. That limits me to almost any type of exercise. But, if there is anything physical you can do at night when you can't golf.....you need to do that instead of sitting in your room dwelling on her and OM and how she is a liar and her fantasy with OM, etc. You need to do something to work that frustration out, which something physical is best, but if you can't, then do something else to occupy your mind. Can't you see what it is doing to you? Your self preservation needs to kick in.

I guess the only thing I have right now is just acting "as if" and no R talks - funny, I think that may be easy. I had to get one more out last night - don't know why, but I did.

You got that right! It's not funny and it won't be easy and you will always feel that you've got to just get one more out......until you detach.

He listens to her - he "gets" her.I know he is at least 10 years younger than she is as well - not much I can do there... I have been listening more - but when I back slide, all those positive steps get nullified. So that is why I cannot backslide anymore.

This is what I've been trying to tell you, sweetie. You've got to become more attractive than the OM. No, there isn't anything you can do about the age.....but that is not what it's all about with her, except it probably is good for her ego. You have the advantage b/c you have a history with her, where OM doesn't. You have a family with her, where OM doesn't. But you are screwing yourself up with these backslides. Bet the OM is not acting like that, is he? No, he is listening and validating her feelings. He is being the good guy and you are being.....fill in the blanks. Why would she want to be around you acting like that? Don't you want her to stay with you? Isn't that your goal? If you two were both single and you wanted to date this beautiful woman.....how would you go about getting her attention? How would you have "favor" in her eyes? You would be charming, witty, sexy, and use all the personality you could muster up to impress her. But, you aren't doing any of this. You are showing her, by your own actions, that the OM is the better of you two men. Stop doing that! You are the best! That is what she needs to see. She needs to see that you are more attractive in your behavior than OM is. Don't tell her......show her. How do you do that and still detach? Well, stop giving her and OM all the power by taking over your constant thoughts and behavior. Stop be so available and GAL when you can get out of the house when she is there.....have a little mystery. When kids are there, give them your time and attention. This is your way of what was called "playing hard to get" when I was growing up. You charm her and all that, but you are just a little out of her reach.....just enough to make her want you. We want what we think we can't have. That's what made the OM so attractive to her in the first place.

You would think I could find better questions to ask, I basically talk for a living and present in front of large audiences... I need to find that art of conversation back in my home! I guess a visit to the bookstore again.

Get that OM out of your head!!!

Women like for their H's to be interested in what they do, just as H's like for their W's to be interested in their work. But, for a woman......we like what Gary Smalley and other authors call "meaningful conversation". Of course, that is my language of love....and I never had that, so it had a lot to do with the breakdown of my M. I have a feeling that your W knows that you are just "enduring" the conversation when you ask about her work, etc. She wants that intimate, meaningful conversation. Not about the kids, house, etc. But, intimate things about the two of you and where your R is going and how much you need her and .........but this is not for right now....listen to me here....that was what she was needing back then. Now, is not the time to try to talk intimate R, etc. You got to get on friendly terms first, right now. So, back to dating....you've got to be considered a "friend" in a way before you jump into intimate stuff.

Yea, staying pissed right now is going to be easy. I will be lovingly distant at home, but I feel like many others - as long as W keeps contacting OM, we have no hope. I just think it is funny that she wants this new life, but wants to keep everything BUT me...

That was exactly how I felt when I was almost a WAW. So, will you listen to me, now?

I am wishing harm on this OM - I thought about telling W a lie and say somebody just called from her school to tell me that she is having an A... Don't know what that would accomplish, probably nothing. Idle minds think of horrible things. At least I haven't snooped.

See what kind of shape you are allowing to happen to YOU? Who are you hurting the most?

CBK, if you believe in God, this is the time that you need to have a long talk with Him and depend on Him for your strength. Yes, you need to man-up, but God will help you through this if you will let Him.

Sorry for the 2x4, but it's b/c I can't sit back reading how you are going down. You will drown, if you don't start pulling yourself up and taking in air and swim for shore. It is all in the DB book if you will study it in the right frame of mind.

Please, please take care of yourself. And, please don't do anything you will be sorry for this weekend.

Sandi

P.S. Sorry for such a long post. Was saving up spit, I guess.

[hopeful4her]

Fantastic post, Sandi. I took a hell of a lot from your last 16 page post to CBK a couple of weeks ago and I will take a lot from this one as well. Would love to have you check out my sitch in Infidelity. Always looking for advise and don't mind the 2x4's.

CBK, like Sandi, and even I said yesterday, its time to man up. Friendly advise from another friend to me that I always think about. My WW wants a masculine man. I have always been the professional, the studious, button down type. That is my 180. Gonna man myself up. Remembering the manly qualities that I had forgotten I had. Not being a jerk or a fixer. Just a man. A desirable man.

Your WW keeps seeing the emotional side of you. Don't let her see this. It is not what you want her to see. Remember WTF. Friends for now and stop focusing on her. I know it is hard to do. You can tell by my thread that I'm not very good at it either.

You have to do it for yourself. Actions, not words.

Just like WW smoking. I started smoking just to have more things in common with her. I had always told her she should stop, but she hates being told what to do. I realize this now. Recently, I told her I was quitting cold turkey. Now what? Next day, she is telling me how she is slowly gonna be cutting back and quitting herself. I thanked God.

Not sure if I just started rambling. Sorry.

Actions. She may follow.

[smartcookie]

Thanks Sandi2, it's over the counter, so I'll check the dosage.

[hopeful4her]

Hope all is well. Just checking in on you.

[stella_k]

Sandy, YOU ARE THE BEST!!!

((CBK)), I hope and pray all goes well this weekend. Thinking of you.

((((positive vibes))))

[Ready2Change]

Sandi gave you great advice! We need to do as she says, even though it is so hard!

[steve477]

CBk listen to Sandi.

She helped me an awful lot!

As for what I have to say.... You are fixated on the OM, it will pass. You will always have an interest as long as he is in the picture. BUT you dont need to always think about him. And as for there being no hope as long as OM is inthe picture. In the long term that is right. In the short term that is not right! Lets think back to the fact that you didnt get it about how long this could take. I am 5 months down the line, making good progress, I think you will agree.... But OM is still inthe picture. OM will be the last thing to go. I want him out in the end, but needs to be Ws decision. When she decides then you can start putting up walls around the 2 of you again.

WWJBD???????? Want to hear more about this!

Cheers

Steve

[daybyday]

where is cbk today

[CBK]

Sandi and friends,

First, thank you for all you well wishing this weekend. I actually read the posts, just needed to do some real thinking before I responded!

First, I listened to all the advice and we had a very nice weekend. I know WAW was really broken up, especially when we all sat down as a family for meals, etc. I did give her a Mother's Day card that I had bought a long time ago that I had actually recorded my voice saying that she was a great mom and raised two beautiful childred. I signed it "Me" - which is how I always signed my cards, but left out the "Love" which I thought was important this time. Emotionally, it was a better weekend that I thought could happen. I really only had to go find time for myself once, and that was a short period and kept saying to myself "water of a ducks back" as she was just being rude. The only other time is when my dad talked to me. My dad is an amazing man, a man of very few words. It was a good talk and one I will cherrish. That is a quick catch up on the weekend.

it seems to me that you have your worst times when you leave on a trip b/c you "think" too much about your stitch, but then when you are home.....you are doing the same thing, but one thing is for sure...you don't have a clue of what "detachment" is all about or else you just flat bum out every time

You are right, I am having a hard time defining detachment. I have rewritten a piece that Faithful sent me and have been trying to read that every day. I think way to much about my sitch, for the most part, can't keep my mind off of it. However, this weekend, with all the pressures of family, etc. I actually slept 5 hours straight last night without Ambien. My mind was not on the past, but on the now and the future. I am realizing more and more that what I have accomplished in the last 7 weeks was to push WAW further away from me. Although I did hover once yesterday, I was pretty good about finding my space - not giving her space, but finding my space. This detachment thing is a mystery still, but I will get there. I know detachment doesn't mean to stop loving her, and I think that is what I was trying to do. It is amazing how co-dependent I am on WAW, and that hasn't helped. I am actually going to start seeing my IC twice a week for a few weeks to get through this patch.

Do you want every Mother's Day to be associated with the memory of them being told that their mother was having an affair? Stop thinking about yourself, man! Think about these people that are family and think about what you would be doing to them. You are wanting to lash out at your wife and hurt her, but it is these innocent people that love her that you are going to damage.

I would have never told my family during this weekend about W having an A - I think that post was a while back. I have actually come to my own terms with the A - this is something I need to work through. IF, and that is a big if in my book, WAW doesn't come back and ends up with OM, then that will have to be a hurdle much later. My family loves my WAW, there were a few glimpses of her this weekend which was great. You are right though, at the time I wrote that, I wanted to get "back" at my WAW, wrong reasons to divulge anything.

Listen, CBK, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and think about others. It is time to man-up! You need to take responsibility for your part of the breakdown in this M. Yes,she is wrong for her A. But, you had all the signs, as you told about in your first thread.....but you did not do what you needed to do....so get off this train ride and start doing what you need to do NOW!

I keep thinking I have hopped of the train, but for some reason climb right back on the pitty train - hopefully off for awhile and only on for short trips if any. I sensed something wasn't right with our M and WAW has been pretty up front with me in C about these things. I have been doing many 180's about listening to her, trying to spend some quality time, which is very loosely defined right now, with her and just getting stuff done. This is all part of manning up to the issues that were there before the A. I know she appreciates the efforts, I know she had a good weekend with family, I know she is thinking. What I need to do is STOP thinking about every gesture, look, word that she says and reading into them, stop being a mind reader, if I could do that, I wouldn't be in this sitch!

You listen to me like I was your Mama for a minute, okay? You have got to get yourself straighten out and hold it together for this holiday and for the sake of your family and stop being self-centered.

My favorite part of the thread I took these words to heart and I did hold it together in front of family (except for dad once). I was the pillar of confidence, was joking around, cooking Mother's Day lunch and cleaning up afterwards so no moms had to lift a finger. My parents left this morning and I told them how much I appreciated them coming up in and how much it meant to our family. Stop this being about me? Again, these words kicked me in the groin - I guess in a good way if that makes sense. That is all I have been doing. That actually helped me this weekend, I really tried to make it about everybody at our home, I think I did, I hope I did.

You have the advantage b/c you have a history with her, where OM doesn't. You have a family with her, where OM doesn't. But you are screwing yourself up with these backslides. Bet the OM is not acting like that, is he? No, he is listening and validating her feelings. He is being the good guy and you are being.....fill in the blanks.

I have a huge advantage right now. My WAW is at home, she is still wearing her wedding rings, she talks about plans this summer in the garden. I almost backslid a bit last night when going to bed, I wanted to make sure she had a great day, but that would have lead to other convo I am sure. I just said goodnight to her and Happy Mother's Day and would see her in the moring. That was it. Confident, not cockey, not "weepy" - I was okay with this. I am heading to mall this afternoon to get my clothes tailored - even though I am eating, I keep loosing a bit of weight, down about 41 lbs in almost 8 weeks, not good. I am making my doc appointment today. But with that, I actually love my new body! I need to tone the heck out of it and need to get back on my plan of gym, nightly workouts at home and golf. That will help. Kind of a funny story, but I hopped out of the shower this AM, my door was closed since my parents were there, but for some reason, was open when I got out. W walked in when I was just standing their in my birthday suit, she just kind of stared at me and I said come on in, and she did, her eyes gave me the once over, I felt good about myself. Of course, I wanted to jump her bones, but thought better of it... You are right, I am the better of the two men, and she will come to realize that - and I hope I am around when she does.

As you said many times in this post, I need to get OM out of my head!!! I think a few moer 2x4's will do the trick. Actually, like I said, this weeked was much better. I need to keep a PMA and block any of those thoughts out. I know I am the better man, I know we were madly in love and she feels she has fell out - my time to show her who she married. First step, showing her we can be friends, that she can be around me without R talks and me "hovering" to be sure she is "okay." I need to get rid of all the negative and keep working on the friendship. Amidst all my GAL, I love sitting on my front porch and reading with a margarita - need to pick that habit back up now that weather is getting warmer...

Sandi, you are right on, I have been slowly killing myself from the inside. I have been more harmful to myself and my R over the past 7+ weeks and I need to do some more deep thinking about my sitch. I am tired of all the crying and feeling sorry for myself. I am tired of not getting work done in the office, I am tired of always wanting to call W during the day and trying to figure out what she is thinking - these have to stop and with help from this board, my support group and God, I will get past this. I know I have said this before - and I hope when I backslide a bit, you all hit me with a few 2x4's again. Nobody wants to be where we are, but God gave us this hand, and time to turn this back to God and change what I have the power to change - me.

I hope everybody else is doing well - I will start to revisit threads today to catch up.

I try and keep my posts short as well, but in some ways, I am hoping to lock my thread so I can get that new name.

CBK

[ping1]

CBK, sounds like you had a great weekend with your family. Keep it up. Good job.