Hey Chazz,

Great thread, so interesting to see how your thoughts are being received. My response to 12 step programs is very similar to yours, and similarly positive.

IN a very crude way, I actually think of the DB "program" and 12 step programs as having much in common. Both encourage total focus on SELF, as opposed to criticizing and complaining about the OTHER. And both have an action orientation, and encourage acting differently than we used to act. Simple and amazing how that all works!

About the churches. I subscribe to the view that churches are spiritual organizations BUT they are also economic and social insitutions. They benefit by controlling resources and acquiring status. I think evaluating them as economic institutions gives a pretty good idea as to why they so vigorously compete for being the "only one" with the "right answer".

It is truly sad that some churches are downright harmful in their counseling with regard to divorce and recovery. But it may be worse that they disdain other approaches, outside the church, that may actually help relieve suffering. WWJD, indeed!

I have a book you and fig might like....The Spirituality of Imperfection. I forget the author, but it is really fascinating I think, and very ecumenical in its appeal.

Thanks again for a thought provoking thread.

AH