Anyone like me?

[CBK]

WDID,

As I just woke up from a horrible dream, I know how difficult it is for you to forget the OM - remember, your H will have some issues as well and I can't remember if he is in counseling. I have not been obsessing about this for a while, but for some reason, I did tonight. When he does, try and understand his pain as well as he is trying to understand yours. I can only hope that if W and I get back together, she can be understanding about this as well, some nights, this haunts me.

CBK

[karen43]

I'm interested in your experience at retrovaille, by July I may need some advise on how to do laundry. Its the only thing I was not allowed to do. I was allowed to cook, clean, cut grass, fix stuff, remodel rooms, take care of the kids, but I was never allowed to do laundry - W thought I would screw it up.

Well, Jeff, I can't fault her for that! I ordered my H to never do the laundry either, but only after he had mixed up bright reds with whites a few times and all our whites had become pinks! I think that is the only really important laundry thing to know: you have to separate the whites from the colors!!! And btw I am suspicious since an otherwise intelligent (well he used to be) person could make that mistake several times; I suspect he did that so I would take over all the laundry chores and it worked!!! Karen

[hopeful4her]

It is good to see you back. Isn't it strange how strangers can be so caring to one another. I have never been one to do this type of stuff on the internet. Is this how WW got started?

I have always done more than my share of everything in the house except be a handiman and yardman. I hate that stuff. Not good at it. Afraid to start a project and screw it up and not finish it. My father always started stuff around the house but always did it half a** or didn't finish. But I discovered it is one of WW's love languages, so I will try to figure out the handiman part. Started some projects and will continue to do more.

Keep your positive thoughts, wdid. I am glad to see you looking to your faith to keep you accountable. Cant wait for my WW to get there.

[whatdidido]

Jeff- Yes, it is a drug withdraw. I wish I had never taken that drug. I will continue to be strong and have faith that wonderful things will happen in the future. That's what I hold on to.

I am letting H know the stuff I like. I am being simple when I verbalize it to him, and it is working. He seems to be doing more of it. We read some of the After the Affair book last night and did one of the exercises. It says to list the things you should try to do to regain trust, him in me that I will remain faithful to him, and the trust, too, that if we go back into our relationship that my H will address the problems and not make me regret my decision to recommit. So, he made his list and I said I'd do mine the next day since it was late.

Here is my list:

-Tell me when you feel optimistic about our future together.
-Show understanding of my need to have time alone.
-Tell me how you feel- share your intimate thoughts with me.
-Call me during the day.
-Text me little messages.
-Email me.
-Tell me when you like the way I look.
-Plan time to be alone with me.
-Tell me what upset you during the day.
-Tell me what pleased you during the day.
-Tell me when you feel I've let you down.
-Show me affection outside of the bedroom.
-Make weekend plans for us.
-Work on being more understanding of my need to take on independent projects; don't assume I'm just trying to escape you.
-Go to retrouvaille with me.
-Go on a romantic vacation with me.
-Pay attention to the things I find physically attractive in a mate and give time to those things.
-Think about sex with me and the things you want to do with/to me.
-Take me out places with your friends so that I feel the pride you have in being with me.
-Show me affection when we are out with other couples.
-Talk about our future plans together.
-Plan times away with the guys so you miss the femininity of me and can talk about me positively and with pride to them.
-Think about things you want to do with me and try to make it happen.
-Work on getting to know me, the things I like.

We are suppose to list them and both work on trying to do one or more a day. What do you think of my list?

CBK- H is not in counseling, but we are talking about whether he should go or not. We keep thinking retrovaille will help a lot. WE did get a list of counselors for us to go to if we think we should or if he thinks he should.

H4h- I think about you, Jeff, and cbk the most....yes, kind of strange how much I care about people I have never met. I met my OM on the internet and yes, the connection you can feel with someone on here is great because you are talking and they are listening with no distractions of real life. Just you and them.

As for my day today, good...mind on my H because he had the day off and I was with him all day. I guess I only really think about OM when I am alone. I take that back, I still look for his car....only because I would hate to have him see us and hurt.

[Frank V]

Hi whatdidIdo, I know this was a post a short while back, but I wanted to comment again on something you said. You had mentioned you felt bad for the OM that you hurt him, you said you feel bad that you hurt two people.

1. The OM knew about your marriage yes? If the OP KNOWS the person is in a long term relationship and flirts/has an affair anyways, they get everything they have coming to them. They are violating someone else's relationship. If you break into someone else's home and fall down the stairs, should the home owners feel sorry for you?

2. If you put any feeling into the OM about how HE feels you are bretraying your spouse over and over again. You need to accept that this man did SEROIUS damaage to your marriage and now you and YOUR HUSBAND have to clean up HIS mess. You have to forget how this person feels who violated your home and your life, he had no business getting involved with you. If he's hurt, its becuase he put his hand in fire - he should have known better.

3. Sharing details about your affair helps you bond with your spouse again. "Not Just Friends" is a great book as well. It has lots of ideas on how to rebuild trust after an affair happens. NJF also walks thorugh the process of how affairs get started, the boundaries that get crossed that shound't have. It helps strengthen your relationship against affairs in the future while bonding the two of you at the same time.

4. Don't expect to feel physical attraction for your husband, its going to take time. You need to switch the places of your husband and the OM. You put hte OM on the inside of your life and put your husband on the outside, switching them back again is going to take time. Realizing all the damage the OM did helps you put him outside again. You can't victimize him or you hold yourself back. You were vulnerable and he should have known better.

5. While the OM knew you were involved already, your husband did NOT know he would be betrayed by you and this man. And yes you both betrayed him...the technical term for his behavior is "homewrecking". Don't victimize him OR pity him. He knew what he was getting into and he was hurting your husband, more than you were even. Don't you feel angry with this man for hurting your husband? This guy violated your husband's home, his life, and did a LOT of damage to both of you..and you feel sorry for him? No no, don't give him a second thought. He would NEVER have done this if he had any idea how it felt..he was just being selfish and inconsiderate...he deserves every bit of pain he' gets right now.

[JeffSTL]

whatdidido: H4h- I think about you, Jeff, and cbk the most....yes, kind of strange how much I care about people I have never met. I met my OM on the internet and yes, the connection you can feel with someone on here is great because you are talking and they are listening with no distractions of real life. Just you and them.

Thank you

I think you list is great, I don't care what other people tell you, keep it simple and give H a little at a time. We get confused easily. Talk up the good stuff, between you, stuff you like and stuff H likes, and do not talk about OM or anything relating to that.

Your doing just great - keep going

M45
W41
M10 years
D9, D6, D6, S5
OM confirmed 12/07 Merry christmas to me
PA confirmed 03/08 not intercourse yet ??
WHAMMO - W moving out June 1st

[whatdidido]

I appreciate your thoughts again, Mark. The problem is that I told this last OM that I was separated (fact) and headed for divorce (fact at the time). As we went along, after the first 3 months or so, I got the house appraised and got ready for divorce. I had told him this. Then, I stopped doing anything. He was waiting for me to divorce because I said that is what I was going to do at the beginning of the relationship. If I had known that I wasn't going to divorce, I would have told him that and he would have stopped pursuing me and I would have broken up with him. It got to just recently that I decided I didn't want to divorce. So, I feel bad at the fact that I wasted his time and I hurt him in the process. Honestly, at this point, he is probably more furious than hurt. Yes, he knew I wasn't divorced yet, and coming from a divorce himself, he should have known better. But, due to my circumstances, can you see why I feel awful? I feel like I convinced him of something that didn't happen.

[Frank V]

No I actually can't see why you feel awful.

If you weren't divorced yet, he had no business getting involved. MANY couples separate and get back together or go through divorce proceedings only to have regrets...much like it sounds you did yourself.

Until there is a CLEAN and PERMANENT break between a couple no one else should get involved, and to be honest, he should have given you at LEAST three to six months before suggesting the two of you get involved. He gave you NO TIME to grieve your marriage or make any sort of transition..he rushed you, and you were vulnerable and allowed him to rush it.

Sorry, but when one person is hurting, lonely, emotionaly confused, and hurt from a relationship in trouble...and some other person comes along and offers a new beginning...i DONT feel at ALL sorry for that new person if the hurt person goes back to work on their marriage.

NO ONE should be getting involved with someone who doens't have a clear head and heart...you ARENT helping. A lot of people seem to think that offering someone a new reltionship with them is good therapy for hurting over the loss of another, it isn't. People need TIME to HEAL. He gave you NONE.

I understnad you likley lead things on as well, but when someone is hurting, you don't HIT ON THEM or offer to DATE them...you be a FRIEND, or if you CANT keep uninvolved then send the hurt person to someone who CAN control themselves.

HE had a clear head, you were hurt from your marriage ending. He never should have gotten involved...and he knows it.

And look NOW he's STILL pursiing you while you made it CLEAR you wanted to work on your marriage...he's trying to BREAK UP your HOME...its perverse behavoir.

If you had a daughter and some guy was encouraging her to lie to YOU and run away from YOU, and he was calling your daughter even AFTER your daughter made it clear she doens't want to betray her family you would likley think the guy is a real ass.

Protect your home and your spouse like you would your children. This man should have sent you to counselling, or to talk to your husband, he NEVER should have gotten involved in something that wans't over to begin with.

[Frank V]

Let me give you a further example from my own life :

My wife (CL) decides privately she doesn't want to live with me anymore.

1. She packs NO BAGS.
2. She tells NO ONE she's leaving.
3. She makes NO PLANS for an apartment or to live elsewhere.
4. She doesn't tell me how she feels.

This is two weeks after she had a misscarriage and we lost our baby.

Some guy meets up with her on the internet. She tells HIM she's done with our relationship..in PRIVATE...and begins an affair.

Now, if YOu were that guy, and you knew everything above, that she just miscarried, she had made no plans to leave, hand't told me she was leaving etc...would YOU think it was a SAFE time time to get involved with this woman?

Flash forward, 1.5 years later...he's STILL pursuing her on the PC, she has made NO actions to move out. She's building a GARDEN outside our home...all around it, major landscaping project. Sh'es going to marriage therapy with me..SHE's booking appointments on her OWN...and this guy is still pursuing her.

What do you think of this guy?

She told HIM she was done too...should anyone feel sorry for him if/when she breaks things off?

He's been terrorizing a private home/househod (and trashing me to her on a daily basis and asking her to move out). Harassing a troubled relationship and couple for over 1.5 years. Yes we have problems, but he's ADDING to them by hovering around. I really don't think he deserves an ounce of sympathy.

Your OM was in a similar situation, you were separated, but couples separate to get their HEAD clear, NOT to have affairs...when a couple is separated both of them are VULNERABLE and CONFUSED, they need SOLID support, not sexual predators looking for weak prey.

If this guy walked away when you went back to your husband I might feel an ounce of pity, but the fact that he's calling your home and terrorizing you and your husband long after the message is clear leaves me with nothing but contempt for him...sorry. He's just being a child and he hasn't grown up.

[Frank V]

Sorry to be a thread hog...one more point...DON'T let this drag out for 1.5 years and worry about this guy the whole time...it just holds your marriage back and makes reconcilliation a LOT HARDER.

This guy is just homewrecking at this point and he knows it...the fact that he won't walk away when he's clearly not welcome leaves me viewing him as nothing more than a sociopath.

Anyone who enters' someone else's life, their home, or the couple's life and THREATEN's that in any way is nothing more than pond scum. Marriages are hard enough to make work without this ass hammering away at something terribly delicate.

He isn't worth an ounce of your time, he's behaving like a spoilt child who has been sent to his room. Let him go and enojy your devoted and generous husband. I admire his courage and strength, not to mention his devotion for you. That alone should be attractive enough for any woman.

In my opinion, your husband is more than a partner, he's a god damn romantic. Love him like he loves you...that's a rare gift he's offering you...love in the face of betrayal...don't take that lightly..its NOT easy to take someone back into your heart when they played a part in hurting you this way.

Your husband's one in a million. Love him, and let the rest of it go.