Trying to figure out WAW

[Flipper]

I went dark to see if my W would call ME. About 10 days went by and she called. We small-talked and seem to be getting along. Then a question, "Were you thinking of dating? Becuase we're going in different directions." I explained that I was not going to date, that I was wearing my ring (she's not) and was working on myself. She claimed not to want to date right now and it appears she is telling the truth. I have been doing pretty well keeping things light but I thoughtshe wanted to know what I had been up to. I told her of all the couseling, reading I was doing; how I was figuring things out and how she must have suffered from MY depression. I did, however, get the feeling that I went too far, "this thing can swing around and get better..we can be happier than ever". Okay, that did go too far. But I thought the important thing was that I recognized her pain and I was aware of that.



Well, her g-friend called me with some intel. The W said that the conversation was nice but it became all about ME. Her friend, who is very cool, said to keep it about HER for now; that W thinks that I don't care about what is going on in her life. I even took notes. But after I got off the phone, I cried and cried. I spilled my guts to her and that's what she had to say. I am so hurt right now. I know I will eventually calm down and re-group, but right now, this sucks.

Also, her big thing is that I don't listen to her, but I CAN'T get her to open up! I pause when I talk to her, waiting for a response...just silence.

It seems that, no matter how I play it, I will be made to fail and she will be the victim. Never mind that I asked her what all she was up to and we spoke, cheerfully. Can someone tell me of similars? Is this common? Part of me feels like an idiot. I have been working so hard, reading, counseling, etc. She doesn't seem to even care. It hurts. I guess she wants to feel GOOD about divorcing me.



My stitch-
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1434762&page=4#Post1434762

[christarn]

Flipper, just the fact that she is calling you...is a great sign. She's reaching out, so she's thinking about you, take that as a positive.

I think it's great you have a "friend" who is telling you things your W says...but be careful...just a word of advice. One thing I have learned in a year and 3 months at this, believe nothing you hear and only 50% of what you see.

I don't know for sure, so I am just stabbing in the dark at this one, she is wanting your attention. She left to get your attention, she is calling you, she's not super sure what to talk about...but knows something inside isn't "right" without you, "listen" to what she is saying. Empathize with her. Make small talk and see if it will get her to open up. She may not want to hear about all the "great" things you are doing for you, because she is not at that place yet. She has to get there on her own. She has to see the changes, not be told about them.

I think you are doing great with all of the things you are doing on you. You have to tread extremely light when it comes to conversations with her. You might even talk for ten or so minutes, then say hey it was great to hear from you, but I have to go, meeting up with the guys for a beer and to watch a game. Leave her wanting more. It hurts like hell to do, but it might open her eyes, and if the conversation is lacking, it gets you out of it.

I am a WAW, left in Jan of 07, filed for D shortly after. My H and I agreed in May 07 to put D on hold. He is wavering as to what to do. Just because a D has been filed, do not give up hope. I also reccommend a DB coach. They are expensive, but well worth the price. Mine has given me invauable advice. The most recent being the 4 steps/phases of reconciling a R/M. 1. destroy negativ feelings(takes time) 2.regain a friendship (talking/hanging out) 3. Romance (speaks for itself, start MC here) 4. reconcilliation.

My best advice is PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE. This will not happen quickly. It will take time. And Time, flipper is truly on your side

I will keep you in my prayers. Best of luck
Christarn

[Flipper]

Christarn,

Thank you SO much for your advice. I really need a WAW point of view. I am new to this board (and to BB's all together). You've brought out a few happy tears just reading your response. I will have a good day now. I am a Christian and really appreciate your prayers.

My wife means so much to me. I guess the more you love 'em, the more passionate one gets. Our favorite movie is Moonstruck and a line in there is, "Do ya love him, Loretta?" "Yeah, Ma, I love him." "Ah, that's too bad, because when you love 'em they make you crazy."

I will print-out your response and when I get sad or frustrated, I will read this. I find that a good strong prayer alleviates anger and bitterness as well.

Your advise, "believe nothing you hear and only 50% of what you see", makes sense. The W did tell her friend that she still was on the divorce-course. That is always not good to hear, even when you expect to hear it.

But when you put it in the perspective of the W, it should not be about me. Your comments remind me that SHE is suffering and that SHE did not ask for this to happen. She is a good person going through a lot. I tend to think that, if she knew how to make things better, she would do it. Right now, she is decompressing and clearing her head. I guess she can't do that if I keep cluttering it up, huh?

When I was talking to her, I mentioned that she did not trust me (that things would be more-of-the-same) and that she was scared. She said it right out, "I AM scared". I thought that was (1) huge for her to admit and (2) let me know that maybe I am on the right track.

I need to destroy her negative feelings for me too: by LIGHTENING up. I keep talking about the R. I seem to let her pull me into it too. She started out asking me if I was going to date people. I took that as an open door, then "blah blah blah". Actually we really seem to enjoy our talks if we keep it light, and I excuse myself early. One time I did that on the phone and got an ILY before hanging up. That was awhile ago.

I am delighted to hear of the D being put on hold. I will place you in my prayers as well. Thanks again!

[christarn]

Flipper, I am glad it helped. I will post Jen_Jam's top ten for you also. It was a great source of comfort for me, when I was new around here. I read it every time I became frustrated or lost hope. Another site that I have found for Christians trying to save marriages is rejoiceministries.com. I have them send me(via email) a daily devotional, which helps me remain focused on what M is truly about, God's wishes. I am catholic and some of their beliefs are a little new to me, but I love reading the scripture every morning...it truly keeps my hope, faith, and strength alive!

I would try to stay away from any R talks for now, if she starts it, try to keep it light. Work rebuilding trust and friendship, and SHOWING, not telling her the changes you are making!

Will go find the top ten I was talking about

Christarn

[christarn]

Flipper, I read this over and over and over during my first few months of seperation. This is great stuff. When I find new people on the boards, I always post it for them, it is awesome awesome stuff!! Somebody did that for me, and it is what helped me the most, I hope it helps you as well! Thanks to Jen_Jam for her Awesome top ten


This is Jen_Jam's famous top ten, It helped me keep my sanity...when I find myself getting down about all of this, I read it...it's good stuff, again thanks to jen_jam, for the famous top ten!!

1. Don't panic, no one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't depair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own timeframe.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.

[Flipper]

Christarn-The W just called and very calmly told me that she wanted to be free and to please let her go. She said she wants to SPEED up the property settlement. I just took off my ring and I am devastated. She said that, because I had hope, I wasn't taking her seriously. Now it looks as if it is over for us. The thing is how calm and peaceful she is when she tells me. It REALLY makes me lose hope. She has always been like no other woman I have known. Plus, she can turn off to so many people because she has bonding issues from her childhood. That's why it's so scary when she says these things. She said that this thing has been "dragging on and on." She only told me about the problem in December!

It seems that any cheerfulness she sees in me, she mistakes it for not taking her serious. For God sake, I lost 45 pound just from stress. I can't win. I have to let her go. She's been begging me. I can't even SHOW any hope.

[stillfighting]

Listen Flipper,

Sme thing happened to me and still is. Read my thread and never give up hope. Things can change over night, I didn't believe that and thaught it was all over many times. She moved out, we finialized the divorce after she came back, and now is still under the same roof with me. But I stil lget the negative speaches and the "let go of me and move on with your life" Just do what your doing and maybe go dark. She will contact you again and start pulling you in. I can almost gurantee it.
Stay strong, take it day by day...

[Flipper]

Thanks, Stillfighting!
I admit, I have calmed down since I posted the above. We do still love each other and are taking extra care to be kind during the settlement. I have since spoken to her and asked, "By the way, what'd you do with your ring?" She responded, "I carry it with me, in my purse." Hmmmm.

Well, the fringe benefit is that I have lost weight and look a heck of a lot better. My Attitude is WAY better. Now if I can only Luuuure my sweetie back! I will be kind, loving and patient. I am also working on making the conversation more about HER. Right now, as I understand it, she is really feeling unheard (got some valuable intel from her friend...who is very cool.)

Thanks again.

-Flipper

[sandi2]

Hi Flipper,

Don't know enough about your stitch to analyze it, but being an almost WAW, I know that more is involved than meets the eye here. Either there is another man that you don't have a clue about or else this has been going on a loooooong time before last December. WAW's don't get up one morning and decide to leave without some specific reason. Most have tried to tell their H's over and over again and again.....but, the H would not actually "hear" what she was telling him. She too may have poured out her guts to you, but maybe you did not really listen to what she was saying. Read Michelle's article here on the board about WAW's.

Tell us more and keep posting. I'll get back with you later.

Take care,
Sandi

[Flipper]

Sandi,

Of course I hate to think about there being OM. There always could be I guess. It's a small town and no one seems to suspect this but who knows. Barring any real intel, I must have faith that she is being honest about that. Otherwise, it's crazy-making for me.

Regarding the sudden onset, she told me that she had been feeling this way for a long time. She has admitted to not being a good communicator.

I read all about the WAW syndrome and she fits the bill. Right now, we are having nice contacts, BUT interspersed with talks of the D and property settlement. Until further notice, she "wants this divorce".

As far as the marital dynamics are concerned, there is no shortage of blame for me. I suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Ever since she dropped the D bomb, I got on medication, lost weight, got closer to God and generally feel great...except for this sitch.

Before that, however, I was very negative, could be angered easily, was very emotional, had nightmares, night sweats, was very insecure, clingy...let's see...did I mention insecure? I guess it was no picnic for us, especially not her.

She went to my shrink a few times over the past few years and felt better after he explained why I was going through all this. But I don't think she was getting the tools needed to deal with it or just simply got fried.

In the months leading up to the bomb, she started becoming withdrawn and refused to open up to me, to the point of getting mad when I kept asking her to tell me what was wrong. Then she would sometimes start crying saying that she couldn't make me happy. At the time, I was in my own fog and didn't know what she meant. I would ask her if she thought I should see my shrink. She would respond, "I can't tell you what to do."

She was never one to tell me what was on her mind, possibly because she did not want to bring any more stress on me. She probably did not feel safe to do so or felt that complaining would make me worse. My heart sooo goes out to her.

I love her so much, especially now since I am clear-headed. I feel so bad about what she went through with me and I'm working on forgiving myself. But I feel so good now (with the meds, God, growing...) that I can swing her around the dance floor like we used to. I so want to make it up to her...but I know I must show her with actions. I personally NEVER want to go back to that illness. I will no longer allow it. I do not wish to share my new found happiness with another woman down the road! My W deserves the best and I sure would like to have the chance to provide that to her. My words are just fluff to her right now.

She has recently made comments like, "I am scared" (that any changes are not lasting). She has said that she does not know what the future holds. Recently, when I had a frustrating talk with her she asked, "Are you trying to get closer to me or further away?" Some of her friends have mentioned that she might be watching for change in me. I certainly hope that it true.

Lately I have kept it about her and have zipped my lips. We have been laughing more and she seems to be the one dragging out the visits with chit chat. Last week, I politely made my exit. The front door opened and she yelled out, "Don't I get a hug?" She came out and hugged me and commented on how skinny I was. That was cool.

The other day was my B-day and she baked me some goodies and let me have dog-custody:) She again commented on my appearance. We hugged pretty nice that day.

It's hard when their is a divorce looming. The final date is in August. In the meantime, she is refinancing the house...at a higher rate, etc. She will turn around and ask about the settlement details, almost guaranteed. Aaaargh! I'm so confused!