Ready for the long ride.

[LucasE]

Wahoo! You guys are like heros to me. Thanks for your time.

I'm gonna hold off on the OM question, although it is hard to disagree with MM. Two months of no R talk. I'm not ready to backslide just yet. Maybe there will be another way to achieve MM's intention without bringing up OM. I think the "lack of trust" is the key to what MM is saying. I will keep an eye on the compost pile of squashed emotions that lie deep within me somewhere.

As for the over achieving goal, thanks JTB. That is exactly what I was afraid of. How about: In two weeks we will have a friendly conversation that is not about the kids. We had one a week ago and I was on cloud nine. It sure doesn't take much these days. Anything is better than the norm.

UPDATE: I got a text at 4:45 PM. "Hi. (D7) asked to spend the night with (best friend) and I decided it was okay. I'm taking (s4) to (her place), so you can stay at (family home). Hope your (job) is going well."

No love but she didn't need to text at all so I say it's a good thing. Staying at the family home is no bonus when it's empty. She goes to her place because that's where she is set up to do her work.

My response would be "Cool. The (job) is going well. We got four good ones in a row. Hope your day was good."

I am holding off on my response for now. Give it some time. I want to say "That sounds good to me. I hope you guys have fun. How was your day? My (job) is going well.

I don't feel like I can ask how her day was. I think it is because when I do she usually does not respond. So now I don't ask. As if asking is a little too much pressure from me. Is this walking on eggshells? Is that a bad thing?

[Virtually_Handsome]

My gut says, she didn't ask a question, you don't even have to respond. Other than maybe to acknowledge receipt of the info.

[LucasE]

I waited for three hours and then sent the safe text. Then I read Jeff's message. She didn't ask a question. I hate that. Maybe I should use that as a reason not to respond in the future. Distance. Lovingly distance? What does that mean? Giving her the space she has requested? I can say that often when I do something that feels wrong the results are often positive the next day. Consistency.

I got the book, "Getting Back Together." I have to say I'm pretty stoked to have another printed reference. I can practically recite DR by now.

It is so quiet in this house alone. She even takes the dogs. The cat is useless.

On a brighter note, I became a full fledged member when I responded to Jeff. Now I don't have that Junior stigma. Oh, and I have learned how to spell a lot better in the last few months. Words like Marriage.

I hope you all have a peaceful weekend.

[Virtually_Handsome]

The nice text wasn't a disaster! But, if you mean LRT, don't respond unless there is a need. Sometimes it feels backwards, but as you have noticed, it often works.

Our cat sleeps with me every night! She yells at me to pet her.

[LucasE]

I can do that. I'm sure that I have never not responded. Perhaps that is a 180. Of course, there was her complaint that I was distant in the M but I will give it a shot.

I started reading "Getting Back Together." It sure seems to think that I can do this. At least the first few chapters. I also got another book called, "Getting Your Lover Back." It had a pretty cover. I browsed it this morning and it knows me as well.

UPDATE: No contact. Last night I wrote and recorded a song for d7's school play. I think it is going to be a hit.

Thanks to you all. Have a good weekend.

[LucasE]

Well, I became a full fledged member last night with my 25 posts and the next day I made a major change in my R. I have been studying your threads for hours for the last few days and when I woke up today I felt something new. I felt like I wanted to ask W how she was. Now I know this is R talk and I know it is potentially bad but I think it was a 180. Yes, that's what it was. I have been walking on eggshells not talking about the R and not getting anywhere. So I came home tonight and positioned myself in a place where I could ask her how she was. I could have missed her completely. I have become a master of avoiding her for fear of the R talk.

Well, it went really well. I hope I can remember what was said. I started with how are you? She said she was great. She loved to be alone. She loved to find herself and discover who she was. All of that I expected. That stuff used to hurt me. I said that I recently had realized that our relationship was suffering before she left and I was beginning to remember actual events that were less than perfect. This is new for me. I have previously maintained that all was well. She said that she wasn't happy with the separation because we are seeing more of each other now than when we were married. Now I haven't even read a quarter of my new separation book but I must have felt that I knew enough because I started saying things like, I think we need to really separate more and really experience separateness. At some point she admitted that she wasn't happy all of the time and was sometimes unsure of what she wanted (what, like ten minutes later?) But she did know she didn't want to be married. So I said, neither do I, and she said really? She didn't buy that for a second. So I stopped and thought for a moment and came up with, "I have realized that you were not happy and I do not want to be married if you are unhappy. At first, that didn't matter, I wanted you back, I didn't care how you felt, but now I do." And I meant it. I really did. I even said, "I want to be married to some one who wants to be married to me." Implying everything that that implies. THANKS MM. I got that from you. But I mean it. It comes from me. I just needed the words. We talked for an hour. Oh my god you guys, I would not be here if not for you.

It wasn't all good. At one point she said that she was happy to discover that she didn't need to rely on some man to show her how to learn a new computer program. I said some thing dumb about how I know she is smart and her old methods would still get the job done and she got mad and walked away to wash a dish and said that I didn't listen and I backpedaled and tried to take back what I said, but over all we began a dialogue. I told her I hoped that we could be friends again and that I missed her as a friend. One interesting moment that I must not overlook is that she said she knows that I am angry with her and I said I wasn't. She said if I can't identify that then I need a lot more therapy. We decided that anger perhaps wasn't my "go to" emotion, that sadness or panic was first. She accepted that. I have got to figure that out. I must be angry right?

Anyway, at the end of it all, I got a hug. Sigh. If that's what I've got to do for a hug then I'm in. I enjoyed the whole thing.

I have got to finish that book before I jump into any more R talk. I told her about a book I was reading that might help us to separate more and she asked what it was called and I stumbled and said uhhhh, separation or something? She said, Oh.

Boy, that was dumb. Now I should go back to the store and find a book called separation. Because my book is called "getting back together" and that would not have been the right title at that moment. Four months ago when I told her I was spending time with friends who got together after divorce, she rolled her eyes.

Anyway, my dream came true. No, my goal was achieved. GOAL: to have a friendly conversation that was not about the kids in the next two weeks. I knocked that one down in 24 hours. This $#!% works.

I need a new goal. I'm exhausted. Maybe tomorrow.

One other important bit of information she let slip. Her friend told her that it looked like we have brought the same communication problems from our M into our separation. Well, if we don't talk anymore, how can we fix anything? ARRG.

Then she left. Which is good. Really. I think I might have a longer road than I even thought before. But I might have truly earned my place in Separated, Now What?

"We had a conversation, we had a conversation"

[LucasE]

Woke up really depressed.

[minkerman]

Lucas, some days you will wake up depressed, and other days you will wake up - then realize that you haven't even thought of W until like 10:00am or so.

The ups and downs are normal. I had a few days where I just wanted to cry. I had other days where I couldn't have cared less about the sitch; I was having a good time being free and single.

The key is keeping busy, working on improving yourself, and (as hard as it sounds) NOT dwelling on this pickle you have landed in. The only control you have is whether you are IN FOR THE DURATION, or if you are going to bail. If you choose to stay, you also need to choose not to depress. Yes, it is a choice!

There are many books out there which explain this - the best one I found is "Choice Theory".

No matter what happens, Lucas, you will be OK. You will be better than OK.

[LucasE]

Thanks a ton. The day turned out to be better than it started. You are right, of course, it is just so easy to forget all that strength stuff sometimes. I even named the thread appropriately to remind me of the patience. Thanks for the book recommendation. I will be reading voraciously as soon as I can.

UPDATE: There was no backlash from last night's conversation. No pullback. Not really a chance for one though. I handed over the kids this morning after having them to myself over night. They are awesome. They seem to enjoy all of this. They get much more attention from me. Their mom is often angry with them. She seems to have a short fuse lately. I wonder why? (Not really) It is sort of nice to observe her discomfort for anything other than me. It supports the theory that this is about her unhappiness. I got a call from her just now that was her telling me about the trying day with the kids. I figure that she didn't have to call me but she did. There were lots of laughs and a short discussion about buying organic beds for the kids for her place. I have decided to support the concept of W having her own place where she will have the kids instead of the "nesting". A few months ago I was still holding on to the concept of keeping everyone at home but W needs to really experience life on her own. That is her vision and I am now ready to accept it. I even had a feeling back then that "nesting" wouldn't be enough. I was hoping W wouldn't need to go that far, but now I think I am beginning to realize more and more that she is that far and I need to understand that in order to make any progress.

Love to all of you. I have plenty to spare. L

[ms ladybug]

Just wanted to say welcome. There is a lot of great advice here, and a place where we all KNOW how you feel, and we feel it too.

It IS a long road, so hang in there. You are doing great at recognizing the baby steps and knowing what to say and when.

Thanks for sending out the love, some of us need some extra!