Hey Puppy.....you beat me to my post.....what I get for writing too long! As you know I don't always agree with you, but sometimes I do (lol). I think your case with your wife is one case out of many, many others that would not work the way you advocate. If I were in your shoes, I would probably feel just exactly like you did! But, in most cases.....in most, I'm saying.....you end up losing the wife if you put that kind of pressure on her. At least that has been what we have read here on the board. Now, it's true that not all the patient and space in the world will always get the S back in the M again, but I still know from my own experience as well as reading other's stories that if my H had "demanded" or pressed me or continued to smother me after he discovered the EA.....I would have left him just to be able to breathe and to be left alone. I felt that I would die just being under the same roof with him. I wanted to get away from everyone b/c I was wanting to "escape" my world. I think people are somewhat fragile at times like this.
Being strict with your W and perhaps demanding her to choose then and there......it worked for you....but it doesn't for everyone and it would not have worked for me. I told my H to back away and leave me alone (even though we still shared the same house). He did and we are still together and still working on the M. So, as I said in my previous post, what works for one may not work for everyone, it has just been shown that in more cases.....patient and time is the best route.....that's what I'm saying.
Got to go. Still like ya Puppy...lol.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I cannot force her to stop contact with OM, she knows my feelings and she is in the process of detaching and I know this will take time. As you have said, it is a drug, and addicts need time to get over that addiction.
Permit me to make an analogy, and let me know what you think.
"I cannot force my wife to stop smoking crack. She knows my feelings, and she's in the process of slowly starting to cut back on how much of it she smokes every day, but I know that this will take time. She needs time to get over her addiction. I need to give her time and space, and be here for her, and let her know I care, and hopefully, she'll eventually stop smoking crack altogether and see that I am the husband she's always wanted, and she will choose me."
I know a thing or two about alcoholics. My mom is a recovering alcoholic, and there is tons of it in my family. If my wife were addicted to alcohol, I would tell her that she needed to get help, and we would pour the alcohol down the drain, I would get it all the hell OUT of our house, and I would try to get her checked in somewhere to get thru withdrawal.
If she refused to do that, I would let her know my boundary: "I love you, but I can no longer live like this, nor can I let the kids continue to be around it." And I would ask her to leave.
Sometimes, love must be tough. I realize that's a minority view around here.
I think your case with your wife is one case out of many, many others that would not work the way you advocate. If I were in your shoes, I would probably feel just exactly like you did! But, in most cases.....in most, I'm saying.....you end up losing the wife if you put that kind of pressure on her. At least that has been what we have read here on the board.
I don't doubt that, since this board -- especially lately -- has been censored to get rid of dissenting views. I don't think it's a representative sample (just as I don't think the pro-exposure, Marriage Builders site would be a representative sample -- it would skew in the opposite direction).
I worry about what long-term, passive approaches can do to the psyche of the already-wounded betrayed spouse. That's why I advocate a "fast-track" approach to ending affairs.
I do think every sitc' is a different. I remember my W saying that I am suffocating her when I tried to comfort her - she is in an entirely different world right now, and one I cannot understand. I have chosen my path on the OM and in the end, this may be my downfall of repairing our M - as I listen to WDID, her H is having some issues, those in PA's take a long time to get over the hurt and trust issues. Today, I am willing to work on this R, if W continues to talk to OM, she is making her choices and if/when she comes out of the fog, I may be there or not. I am hopeful that I will be. As those of us on the board know, when OM or OW is involved with a PA, it is painful, feelings of inadequacy, failure, the like. I haven't even started working on that for me - I am still at stage 1 of DBing and not doing a great job at that yet. I will master the steps, and, like I said, am going to fight this battle.
Peace,
CBK
M=46 W=47 M=24 (together 26) D21, S19 Bomb 3/16/08 OM 3/28/08 WAW moved out 5/16 Divorce final 10/09
I think if you could something very simple, such as "Give her time and space but don't TELL her you're giving her time and space", it would even be a huge help.
When my wife was going thru her affair, I decided I would give it 60 days of my best effort for her to end all contact. And I never wavered on what she must do. But I NEVER TOLD HER that's how much time she had; like the troops in Iraq, if you tell the enemy when you're going to withdraw, they'll simply wait you out (only, in this analogy, in REVERSE -- with terrorists, they'll wait until one day AFTER you pull out to wreak their havoc; with a wayward spouse, they will have their fun right up until your deadline, whereupon they're likely to give you a false promise, just to string you along further). I only told my wife "I love you, and I do not want a divorce. I have been patient, but my patience isn't limitless -- please make up your mind very soon."
Puppy - I didn't tell her any dates or anything - I have my own internal dates like you. Last night, during my backslide, I did say almost the exact same thing "I love you and I don't want us to end our marriage - I am going to work on saving this marriage and I hope I can be there if you decide you are willing to work as well" or something like this.
Great advice, I would never tell her a deadline - as one would never know what else may happen.
CBK
M=46 W=47 M=24 (together 26) D21, S19 Bomb 3/16/08 OM 3/28/08 WAW moved out 5/16 Divorce final 10/09
think if you could something very simple, such as "Give her time and space but don't TELL her you're giving her time and space", it would even be a huge help.
Okay, now we are on the same page! See what I mean by communication? (me..not you) I thought you were saying that you demanded your wife to either leave OM instantly or else! I can agree with your here.....don't tell them that you are going to wait until doom's day if that's what it takes until they come back home to you b/c they will walk all over you. That is eating cake with tons of cool whip on top! No, I don't think the WW or WH should be told your plan but I do believe that you should back off of any pressure or smothering techniques and just try to make sure you are making any necessary improvements in yourself. I do believe that we should try to be our best around the S as far as being upbeat and positive attitude, etc. to show them that we are going to be okay with or without them and will have a life and move on...if necessary.
As I told you before, if the shoe had been on the other foot....I would have been some kind of war horse! I would not have been near the sweet and understanding wife that some on this board are. If my H had been the WH......I would have probably given him no choice at all about what would happen. I say that, but until we have actually been faced with the issue....we don't know for sure. I keep referring to my personal experience, b/c I never would have thought that people actually get into those type of "crisis" or whatever you want to call it the way I did. And by that, I don't mean to over-use that word for an "excuse" to do wrong by your S. I just know that I did go through something that I never dreamed I would do and neither did my mother. She named off everyone in the family that she would have thought would do something of that nature before she would have believe that I would have. That is why it hurt so badly to know I had disappointed her.
Puppy, perhaps my H had the same thing in mind that you did.....that he was giving me just so much time and then it would be over....he never said. He only said that he would not give me a divorce.
There have been many quotes on the board from time to time about how "love is a choice". I know that I've read the books about love is a decision and happiness is a decision...or choice.... which ever the wording is.....and I try to buy into that, but I have a little problem with it. From the Christian standpoint I can see that being possible when filled with the Spirit, etc.....and I certainly won't get off into doctrine about all of that. From the human viewpoint, it is like I told my H when we were reading that book "Love is a Decision".....what if I just looked out there across the street at my neighbor and said, "Well, since love is a decision, I decide I love old so & so there. I have absolutely no feelings for the old codger and he is M and has gown grandchildren, but I have decide from now on that I will be in love with him". Well, it would not matter if he was M or not, I still have a problem with that where a M relationship is concerned b/c there is suppose to be intimacy in a M. To me, I have to have "feelings" to be intimate with a person! To some degree, I feel the same thing about happiness being a choice. That is easy to say if you don't have a baby with cancer that is dying, or you don't know where your next meal is coming from, or you are homeless. I understand where the authors are trying to come from and get the message across to the readers......but I still struggle with some of the theory there. To me, where M and family and close friends are concerned....it's more than a "decision"....it is feelings involved. If a person has no feelings for me, I don't want them to be M to me just b/c that was their decision to do so!
Without stirring up a hornet's nest, I would be very interested in knowing something. Is there anyone out there that has made this quote that was the WAS? Or....has this particular quote on love being a decision been made only by the LBS that are usually still in love with their S? B/c every story I have read on this board from the LBS usually states how much in love they still are with their WAS. I am just curious.....not trying to cause a problem or be sarcastic in any way. However, when a person feels that the "lovin feelings are gone".....it sure is hard to keep that "decision" going!
As usual, that is just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
Later guys,
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, my W basically says the same thing as you do about love is a choice, there needs to be feelings as well, and you are correct, if she has no feelings for me, I would not want to stay in the M either.
Just need to jounral a bit right now.
Just came back from a meeting with a friend that has offered me a great job. If stress wasn't enough in my life. At a time I should be very happy, this job would either take me to Southern Cal or travel to LA three days a week. I can postpone for a bit, but lord do I need somebody to talk to about this. I am sure W would want to know, so maybe those margarita's on the deck is what the doctor ordered. I don't want to pursue or push, so will see what happens. I am sure my mom would love to hear as she lives in So Cal...
I have been obsessing all day, W is working late today, I knwo she is as her partner has been gone all day and the counseling gets her behind in her work. I was dying to drive out to her work and make sure she is there - but thought better. I am dying to snoop right now, but will not, it is like a sickness.
I am really down right now, was crying on the way home from the new job offer thinking that this would be a great job... less travel, more time at home in the long run, but with whom? I feel as if I pursue the job, I am in a sense giving up on the M - maybe that is the wrong way to look at it...
Sometimes reading others posts is great, other times, I just sink lower and lower thinking there is no hope, why should I try? Then I think, God, do I love this woman and all the hope comes back.
I was reading WDID thread today, I hurt for her knowing that maybe that is what my W is going through, wants to work, but the OM is still in her heart and it will take a long time to get that feeling out for OM and start feeling love for me again, if possible.
So hard to understand, thanks goodness kids came home from shopping and son is playing a new game on the WII, fun to watch and is keeping my mind of obsessing about OM - the guy I call scum bucket...
I will need to find that inner-strength again that I had a couple of days ago. It is there, hiding right now, but it is there...
CBK
M=46 W=47 M=24 (together 26) D21, S19 Bomb 3/16/08 OM 3/28/08 WAW moved out 5/16 Divorce final 10/09
