We are on a downward spiral

[Bagheera]

Good to hear from you again, Near;

I do the daily or twice daily phone calls with the wife. We have always done this since we were first married.

As I've observed before, you're starting from a better place, i.e. you have a better friendship with your wife, than I did with mine a year ago. When I first started my 'marriage recovery project,' my wife and I lived completely separate lives, and only called and talked during the work day if we needed to coordinate on something (that is, "business" calls only).

The daily de-brief for us could be improved a bit. The wife is usually trying to have supper hit the table as I walk through the door so the kids have some time to digest etc before bed. This would probably be a good place to start.

To steal a phrase from another of my favorite relationship authors, John Gottman, this is all about keeping a current "love map" of your spouse; staying in frequent, in-depth contact; and constantly refreshing your close friendship with her.

Week day evenings. Again, this is probably a good one for us to work harder on. Due to our schedules we usually have between 30-45 minutes after the kids go down before we do. BUT, this is something I can change about our time spent.

We still have a hard time turning this one into a habit; it seems to fall off the calendar under the slightest bit of life-pressure. After I mentioned it to you, I had to poke my wife into a Yahtzee game the next night, so that I wouldn't feel like a hypocrite.

Dates. Tough subject. Used to do, now can't afford. We are generally out of money within a week of payday due to extreme debt load from business and medical. This is going to sound shallow, but after multiple years of dating and my wife figuring out a way to be asleep by the time I drop off the sitter (including when times were better) this will be low on my list. I realize sex should not be the goal, but by God it sometimes should be the result!

I hear ya' Near. On the way home from a nice date, I still have a tendency to get all quiet and sullen, dreading how our return home is going to go (or not go, as it were). Not exactly the right attitude to have for turning a woman on, even if she might have been inclined towards it (can you say, "self-sabotage"?). At the same time, a regular expectation of sex after a date doesn't work either. Even though my own wife is trying very hard now to meet my desires (dare I use the word needs?), just the slightest bit of perceived pressure is enough to shut her down. As the HD partner, it is a fine, fine line that you walk --> make that a razor's edge.

Regular get aways. We have done this a few times. Often they were pretty good and resulted in three of three kids. I will not invest time or money on this until I begin to see a shift in her and our money situation. I am sorry, this one is mostly about sex. There is no other reason to get a hotel room in the same city where you live. Call me shallow, but I can stay at home and talk!

As I mentioned, we haven't incorporated this one yet either, and you've nailed one of the reasons why not. The getaway implies an expectation of passion and romance, which amounts to pressure on my wife again. When I reach the state myself where I can relax and just go with an expectation of a general good time, letting things happen as they will, then I might see if we can try it.

This is a corny sounding metaphor, but I've learned to liken trying to awaken the sensual woman within my wife to trying to catch a bird. The more you scream and chase after it, the more it will fly away. The only way to catch it is to relax and gently coax it into your hand. Easier said than done, especially when you're angry and frustrated at the bird to begin with (and it's all angry with you).

I'm glad to see you thinking about trying to get the ball rolling again -- making the first move(s) is the hardest part, especially if you've tried and failed before. And even after you've had that break-through discussion, the one where she really "gets it" and is willing to work toward a significantly improved relationship with you, the process remains one of two steps forward and one step back. I spent two nights on the couch (or in my 'cave') just this week, until my wife and I were able to regroup and reconnect. first emotionally, then physically. However, our disconnect-dips are slowly growing shallower and less frequent, and the overall trend is positive -- something that I have to consciously remind myself of when I'm sleeping on that silly couch.

The final point is, I'm no expert on this topic, by far, so take my advice and suggestions with an ample helping of salt. I'm just a (wordy) fellow traveler on the same road, who still finds himself in the ditch again once in a while.

Take care, and best of luck to you,

Bagheera