I have posted to a couple of other boards in the past, and while I have gotten some good feed back previously, Ialways come back here because this board seems to have a very "repair oriented" view of how to deal with sexual refusal.
Below is a proposed message to my wife. It is a work in progress, but is also very much waiting in the wings. I need input into how best to express the effects of her distance and refusal(s)of me. I have posted here before and reposting my history is kind of redundant. It is a very traditional story in that it has been sain here a bunch of times before. If there are specific questions you need answered, I am happy to provide the answers.
So please, critique away.
Dearest,
I wanted to write you this because I am hoping/praying, that it serves to push open the doors of communication we have between us. As you know, recent distance between us has been very painful for both of us. I have recently tried to re-connect with you using a variety of methods. Some, obviously, more effective than others. As I continue to re-connect, I have come to a place where I simply MUST make clear to you how our situations are effecting me.
I will not go over all the minute details that we have gone over time and again. It really does no good to rehash all the drama. I do want you to know that I love you very, very much. I always have. I hear you when you express some of your needs as far as the load that you carry, and you need for some help in bearing it. In an effort to help I have been looking for things to do to help you out. I DO CARE. I have also, mostly been doing these things because I feel that they are the right thing to do and doing them also for “me”.
I am hoping that you will spend some time in prayer and meditation regarding our future together. I also want you to know that I am , and have been, doing the same. While things have been peaceful lately, I am still very, very concerned as to the viability of our marriage. I will in the meantime, be looking for ways to keep your needs in mind as we feel our way through this.
As I said before, I have sought counseling. I am also taking the rebuilding of this marriage as my number ONE priority. To do that successfully I need for you to meet me half way.
I am not a needy person. I know that you feel that I am, or can be at times, but that is simply not the case. I do however, have needs just as you do. Mine are very simple. I need to feel loved. I want to feel like I am attractive to you and that you love me as the man I am. I need to feel that I am accepted and wanted for who I am. I need to feel physical touch from the woman I love. This last one is especially important to me as it has a profound impact on everything else I do.
If you are with me in the desire to see this marriage grow and to become the marriage that we are called to enjoy, you need to know what effect lack of intimacy has on me. It has become/is INCREDIBLY destructive to me. It decimates my confidence. It blows all feelings of “maleness” right out of the water, makes me feel like I am lees of a man, and the cumulative effect is incredibly damaging to our chances for improving the marriage. I simply have no words to describe how painful it is to go to bed each night and wake up each morning with the single most enticing woman I have ever known, and know that not only can I not touch her, but that it feels to me, that she has absolutely no interest in being intimate with me. This has to change. I submit to you that our marriage DOES depend on it
Years ago I promised to be faithful to you, and I have. Absolutely, and I continue to do so. It is however, VERY painful to go day after day, month after month, year after year with less and less affection. To be committed to one person, and one person only, and to have that one person refuse me is literally killing me from the inside out. I know I have said this before, and I really am at a loss as to how else to describe the intense feelings this creates in me.
With all this being said, my needs are not all about sex. They are about feeling close to you. I know you have to feel like you are in a certain “place” emotionally in order to do this, but I need for you to understand the damage that your refusal does to me. I desperately want to understand what I can do to provide the environment that you need to be in that place. My problem is I do not have enough information as to how to help create this environment for you on my end. You have given me several ideas, and I am trying to get into a groove regarding them, but you so seldom are willing to discuss these matters. We NEED to talk to each other. We NEED to get these things out in the open where we can deal with them.
At the same time though you seem to have difficulty being able to get to or communicate any real concrete issues that are holding you back from me. Yes, I understand that you are feeling poorly. I understand that you feel overwhelmed. I know that you say you feel that there is lack of support from me. I know that you are having difficulty due to the pressures of day to day life. I get that. I also get that you do not want another needy person that you think you need to tend to. But these are all very broad issues that I have very little control over. The bulk of them are issues that you alone are in control of. I am committed to being available and open to helping you, but need for you to communicate with me on these issues. If me keeping the house clean were all it took to get the love I need, don’t you think I would do it? Don’t you think that if I got SOME affection that it might help me to know I was headed in the right direction?
As it stands, I am still wandering around my life wondering why you won’t be in love with me and you are not willing to help me to see. In fact you refuse to talk to me about it.
What I am attempting to get through to you is more an issue of basic needs that I have been having to go without for a long time. Please know that I am gradually getting the point that you have been too. Believe it or not, I HAVE been trying my best, for some time, to meet those things that you have been able to identify as some of these needs. I just have got to get through to you that mine continue to be ignored and/or dismissed, and that it is devastating to me as a person and your husband that we continue in this way.
Recently you expressed a resentment that has lingered for a great deal of time. I suspect that there a good deal more of these that you have not given voice to. I encourage you, in your prayer time and meditations, to try to define these and pass them on to me regardless of how you think they may impact me. I am a big boy, I can take it. I just need you to put all your cards on the table so we can deal with these issues.
What I am trying to get at is that if you are not going to join me in getting help, I need to know just what your level of commitment is going to be, if any, to getting the marriage to a place where we are BOTH getting our needs met by one another. I also need to know, and to know soon, what you are willing to do to help us both get to where we need to be.
I love you deeply and want so much for us to finally have the kind of closeness that I had always had in my minds eye. I need to know that that is what you want too. If you are fine with just the roommate arrangement or you are , truly, “done” with trying to improve our relationship, I suppose I understand. I may not agree, but like I have always told you, I can’t make you love me. But I do not want to live my life married to my “roommate”. This is not a situation that is entirely dependant on me to fix. I need you to be committed as much as I am. I cannot do it by myself, and cannot sit back and just hold my breath and hope for things to change. WE need to do this TOGETHER.
I still look at you and see the only woman I ever felt this level of passion for. Our marriage is worth fighting for, but I can’t fight this battle alone. Nor should I have to. I must have confidence that you are still committed to re-building this marriage, otherwise I fear that we may have to explore other options regarding getting our needs met.
WAY too long, WAY too placating (or is it "supplicating"? I can never remember).
Just my opinion, but I think you need to make it 80% shorter, and get to the point, and speak the truth in love. I'm guessing that there's nothing in that 80% that she doesn't already know, and that you haven't told her before.
What you're shooting for is an "I love you, but I'm no longer willing to live in a sexless marriage. (This) is what I'm willing to do; can you tell me what you are willing to do?"
I have to agree with Tails on this one. It is too long. However, I applaud you for explaining why this is a critical issue for you and for setting forth an ultimatum for change. The rest of the my fault your fault could be reduced to one sentence. To further your communication of the critical nature of sex for you, can you compare it to a critical need of hers? Communication maybe? Please post what you end up with so it can be stolen (used) by me and others. Note, I have not had the courage to do this and I just continue in witholding sex from my wife in a passive agressive stunt...
It's so sweet that you want to communicate with your wife like this. Do you mind if I help you? To someone who thinks you are needy right now, your letter will only convince them that you are.
Puppy's will tick her off. Although, he's got the spirit.
If you DO want to set an ultimatum, you will likely have to live with the consequence, and if she sees you as needy, she's not likely to give you the outcome you want. I'll post another version of the same letter in the next post.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Tiredofpain, I have read through the whole of your first thread before replying. Two sentences really stood out:
"I am/have always been in the role of playing catch-up."
A man must never do this - it automatically weakens him and thus decreases attraction. A man should do for his wife what he truly should or can, without expectation.
"As hen pecked as I sound, I am a pretty strong personality everywhere else in my life, except with her."
That is a paradox to which only you have the answer. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that deep down inside you do not believe you are strong at all. You are of course wrong, but that belief has allowed your wife to treat you with disdain for year after year after year. Perhaps you should discover your true and strongest self before you even give your wife that letter?
In your first thread both FijiOrBust (second post) and Martelo strongly suggested you do some reading - did you? If so, did it give you any insight into your current situation? If you didn't, now is the time.
Don't get me wrong - a long-term SSM can be emotionally crippling. It can seem endless and grey and bleak and so ... unfair. But attraction (and life as a whole) is ultimately not about fairness, about rewarding the attentive husband or good father or "nice guy" with lots of sex. You can read my second post to Tyguy in order to get my overall take on these issues - his situation was different and so not all of the points will apply to you - but I think some will.
The most critical question for you right now is: Do I have an innate sense of masculinity, of self-worth, of purpose in the world, that is freestanding and totally independent of whether or not I am getting approval or sex from my wife or indeed anyone else? Judging from your letter, the answer is "no". That weakens you at the very core of your being, and makes you inherently unattractive.
That's not a criticism - just an observation. Due to all kinds of reasons, I suspect very many married men in the Western world would also have to answer that question "no". But the question has to be confronted - it is fundamental to every man. If you ask me, you need some time away from this marriage - a one or two week holiday on your own - something absolutely different, and wild, on the edge. Mountain-climbing? Desert trekking? Jungle exploration? Dangerous experiences that will make you have honest conversations with yourself, rather than tiptoeing conversations with your wife. When you can answer that question "yes" and really believe it, you will never look back. You will never act or speak the same way with your wife again. Your letter will also look very different, although I doubt you will actually need to write one.
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
The recent distance between us has been very painful for both of us and I have come to a place where I simply MUST make clear to you how our situation is affecting our marriage. While things have been peaceful lately, I am still very, very concerned as to the viability of our marriage. Rebuilding our marriage is my number ONE priority, but I need your help.
You already know that I love you very, very much. I always have. I hear you when you express some of your needs as far as the load that you carry, and you need for some help in bearing it.
I understand that you are feeling poorly…that you feel overwhelmed…and you feel that there is lack of support from me. I would like to give you that support. I have been looking for things to do to help you out and will continue to be looking for ways to keep your needs in mind as we feel our way through this.
Recently you expressed a resentment that has lingered for a great deal of time. I suspect that there may be other resentments that you have not expressed. I encourage you, in your prayer time and meditations, to try to define these and pass them on to me regardless of how you think they may impact me. I can take it. I just need you to put all your cards on the table so we can deal with these issues.
I still look at you and see the only woman I ever felt this level of passion for. I love you deeply and want so much for us to finally have the kind of closeness that I had always had in my minds eye. I need to know that that is what you want too. If you are fine with just the roommate arrangement or you are, truly, “done” with trying to improve our relationship, I understand. I need you to be committed as much as I am…I cannot do it by myself…WE need to do this TOGETHER.
me
This is my edit. It's STILL pretty long, especially for someone who is overwhelmed and feels you are needy.
What do you think. Can you go with less?
What do you REALLY HAVE TO HAVE as your goal.
It is unrealistic to expect her to be AS COMMITTED AS YOU ARE. She won't be there yet. But a willingness to work, to begin....what can you accept?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
When I married you, I had envisioned the two of us sharing our lives with each other. I imagined us growing old and wise together.
As often happens with relationships, life's demands seem to always threaten to add distance between the spouses. Needs go unmet. Resentments fester. Anger shows itself, and acts to increase the distance even more.
Unfortunately, we have been sucked into the self-sustaining vortex of resentment, anger and withdrawal that threatens all marriages.
I have had a glimpse of what it must be like for you to go "unheard" over the years and often unsupported. I can understand your resentment and anger. It makes sense. You have my honest apology for my contribution to your hurt. I am willing to do what it takes to fully "get it", but I will need your help since it obviously doesn't come naturally to me.
If you are wondering how I came to understand the need to be heard, understood, and supported, it seems that I have found myself in a position similar to yours. The intimacy, both physical and emotional that I have always wanted in our relationship, has proven to be illusive and difficult for me to find. Likewise, I find myself also dealing with feelings of resentment and anger, that I have unfortunately allowed to add even more distance in the relationship.
I have gone through multiple iterations in my mind of trying to figure out emotions and needs and balance all of that into some semblance of a functional relationship. No matter how I tried to balance the ideas in my mind, the ideas always had "holes" that would prevent them from working.
I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it is that is broken and what I wanted, then it became crystal clear to me. "Want" is the key I was looking for, not need. I might "need" to eat, but I "want" to share it as often as possible with you.
Here is a short list of some of the things I have realized.
- I want the woman I married back. - I want our individual and mutual complaints with the marriage not only addressed, but fixed. - I want our kids to have a stable family from here until they are having our grandchildren. - I want my partner in life back. - I want to love and be loved again. - I want us to face the world as a team again.
Come be with me. Let's fix this thing now while it can still be fixed. You don't even have to have a plan. I already have one, and it's one we can work together.
Hubby ------
If you decide to use the letter, then you had best really have a plan for the recovery of your marriage. I suggest professional help, but whatever you do, make sure that you are proactive in doing it. Lead.
All the best, NOPkins
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
"I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it is that is broken and what I wanted, then it became crystal clear to me. "Want" is the key I was looking for, not need. I might "need" to eat, but I "want" to share it as often as possible with you.
Here is a short list of some of the things I have realized.
- I want the woman I married back. - I want our individual and mutual complaints with the marriage not only addressed, but fixed. - I want our kids to have a stable family from here until they are having our grandchildren. - I want my partner in life back. - I want to love and be loved again. - I want us to face the world as a team again."
I couldn't agree more. This is the key to the whole thing - men have wants and desires of women, not needs. The "time alone in the wild thing" I suggested might be called "hokey" by some, but men have not been doing this very same thing in centuries gone by for no good reason. Collective guilt over wars, modern society, political correctness, the perceived requirement to always be sensitive around women, technology and sedentary, paper-based jobs have all combined to make men ashamed of, and to deny, their inherent ability to be, think and act as men.
Hence many men now really believe that having sex with their wives is the very definition of being a man, without which they are somehow not whole or complete. Such men have therefore handed their wives the power to make them strong and content and happy - a power their wives never even asked for, and are probably nervous to even hold - no wonder they then put it under the kitchen sink!
Some serious time alone would be a way for Tiredofpain to reset the "needs v wants" software that has held him back since his honeymoon, and approach his wife from the position of "I don't need you, but I still want you".
For her to "get" that difference of approach he really has to know it and believe it within himself, and I don't think he does right now.
Tiredofpain, I know I've gone on at some length - my own "reset" was a tough and hard one - but once I had, it was like waking up and seeing the world in colour, compared to dreary grey. There is not a single aspect of my life that has not changed for the better. No-one I know has failed to notice a difference in me, and it would be wrong of me to not now pay it forward.
Best of luck.
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
