Help Me Act AS IF, Part 5

[newnamenewlife]

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[CBK]

LMG

My W sounds like your H! Like you, we have been together a long time. I keep trying to figure out what happen to my woman I married?! Hard to believe our S can treat us so coldly, like we should just walk around without any emotions... Well, that is so difficult to do for us.

Just remember, he is an alien, and a lot of what he is saying is spew.

Keep up the DBing, try to things that make you happy and treat yourself to the good things - they are different for all of us. I am still having a hard time leaving the house - so just know, there are many of us out there like you and this is a great support group..

[newnamenewlife]

I don't know which is worse--this limbo where we are techinically married but not acting at all like H&W, or the thought of H actually moving out around when my D11 goes to sleepaway camp for the first time, followed by a new, more rigorous school in the fall. Any way I look, it's a nightmare.

I am increasingly stressed out by having to pretend things are OK for the sake of the girls and I also feel incredibly lonely having a fake H who won't touch me or do anything alone with me. I am still convinced my real H is in there somewhere and is going to re-surface.

It's so hard for me to imagine feeling the way he feels. I think if I was hurting him as much as he is hurting me, I would give the M a real chance. I cannot imagine ever telling him I don't love him--what a cruel, cruel thing to say to someone! I keep wondering what I did that is so irreversible and unforgiveable. Sure, over 19 years, I've said and done some thoughtless things, but nothing so awful--nothing that justifies him seeing S as the only option here.

And now I know H wants to talk more about S plans. I have no idea what's up with him there--if he has rented an apt or looked at apts or started to look for someone to renovate our third floor. I have become phobic that he's going to bring it up, so the minute our Ds went to sleep, I went and took a bath and now I'm "working." I'm living in this weird state of denial. On the other hand, what should I be doing? I am GALing and all that as much as possible, but i'm not about to facilitate his departure and it seems like that's what he wants--help in making it real.

[cw68]

LMG, I can't really spend much time here, my MIL is in town and she and my H are waiting for me to watch a movie, but I'll comment tomorrow. Stay strong in the meantime.

[newnamenewlife]

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[Grace_O]

lmg,

I know the pretence is exhausting. I didn't pretend everything was so much "ok" as I was nice and civil. Did I do it well? Not always. The stress is tough. I took up weight lifting.

I think if I was hurting him as much as he is hurting me, I would give the M a real chance. I cannot imagine ever telling him I don't love him--what a cruel, cruel thing to say to someone!

I thought this was an interesting perspective. I can see in myself the desire to run away. While it is cruel to tell a spouse you don't love them, I wonder if part of that isn't out of self preservation so they can push us away and get the space they need. When they sill that space with someone else, well that's just adding fuel to the fire IMO. I don't know the answers. I'm still looking for my own and it saddens me to know I may never get them.

As much as you can don't "telegraph" your phobia about talking about S. Every move you make will send that message if it's what you're thinking. I know it's hard not to think about. If he brings it up and you don't want to talk about it (this precludes his making a statement, that you can just acknowledge), just tell him you'd rather talk later. It may give you a breather to at least prepare a little. Do you know your bottom line with regards to S? If not, it might be helpful to have a list of what you expect to happen. It can be negotiated from there. Have you ever spoken to a DB coach? I know cost can be a factor, but I've really found it invaluable. I don't call often (cost), but I write down things I want to go over in between calls and then as I figure things out for myself I cross them off the list and revise it before I call. That's just one of the things that's helped me.

I hope you feel better soon. HUGS

[newnamenewlife]

Good to hear from you, Grace--how have you been? Haven't seen your thread lately.

I went to IC today. C said something interesting, which was that despite all the hurtful things H has been saying and doing to me, HE seems to feel like the victim. He has been so angry and cold toward me.

It makes me so terribly sad to feel such pain and anger toward my H, since my perception is that we have had a loving, mutually respectful R for most of our time together. It's so awful and truly sickening to suddenly feel like your best friend has turned into almost an enemy, you know? Awful.

If/when our M really ends, what do I make of it--the love letters, the wedding album, the 19 years together, photos, kids, etc? Was it all a sham if it ended like this? How do you ever look at that stuff again? How can it not be torture?

[girlfromipanema]

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. It is so freaking painful. And confusing. And all-consuming. I'm so exhausted from thinking, worrying, the anger... the fear. Ugh.

My heart truly goes out to you. I hope you can find some happiness soon.

[SirPrizeMe]

LMG, sorry you are still making your way through this.
it just keeps on going, huh? seems to never end sometimes.

Hey I want to offer a little different perspective.

here are some things you wrote:

He give me such clear stay-away vibes most of the time that it felt huge for me to suggest watching the movie together. When he didn't respond to that, I felt I couldn't return and simply start watching it with him.

In this case, you had suggested you watch Juno together. He said "ok". Then you left the room, and you think maybe he started watching it. Just an outsiders perspective, but... what's to prevent you from walking right back into the room, plopping yourself on the sofa and watching the movie?

What I am reading between the lines is that you have an expectation of what he should be doing - like being warm, affectionate, playful, attentive, or just loving - and when he does not fulfill that expectation of yours, you are crushed.

You also related the story of the airport pickup - the almost-air-kiss and then that night, where he didn't reach for you in bed.
you wrote:

It's hard to have no expectations. I keep thinking he is going to snap out of this and am continually surprised at his total lack of tenderness toward me.

Yes, I see that. And not just surprised. I think you are hurt by it, too. You wrote, "how can he be so cruel?" to say he did not love you.

----
I don't want this to be a 2x4, but it is sort of a different perspective. I see how much you are hurting and I wish it weren't so. don't take this to be me, ignoring your pain. But it is something other than just empathy.

Could it be possible that your expectations of him, which he surely sees, are just pressure to him? Could it be he feels inadequate? could it be he lost the "spark" for you, and he feels dejected and hopeless because of it. He sees you are lovely, kind, generous, giving, attentive to the kids. He sees, he knows you are a very good person. Yet he feels no spark, and so this just makes him feel worse. "Why don't I love her?"

Then, when you are deeply sad about it, it only feels that much worse for him. He wants out of the trap, yet he sees you are going to be even more hurt, which causes him more distress and just pushes him away further.

It's tragic! I don't know if this is what is happening in your marriage, but it felt like something like this was happening in mine.

If this is the case then what is called for is a vacation - kinda like when you went to LA. But it has to last longer. Like, every day, for a long while. and I don't mean you have to be geographically separated. But emotionally. He needs it. He is telegraphing it to you every day. And you are resisting that. You are expecting kisses, you desire his touch, and he keeps telling you he wants to be further apart.

I know it feels wrong to you, in every fiber of your being, to separate what to you seems like a very good marriage. A good marriage with some troubles, but still good. Good for you, good for the girls, and if he would only see it, good for him too. But there's the rub, he doesn't see it. He sees you holding him in this trap of a relationship, which he thinks is not good for him. he sees you as the thing in his way to freedom.

So maybe take to heart the DR book where it says, get a life. Not to say, become hostile or even uncaring toward your husband. But become ... detached. When he doesn't kiss you, then... ok. If he laughs with you and plays with you, then... enjoy it. When he gives you the cold shoulder afterwards, it seems so bizarre, then let it be.

I am saying this not as someone who has succeeded. (not YET! anyway, hee hee) I will tell you that my wife was the same as your husband - cold, inexplicably so - and I was willing to just bear it, for ... I don't know how long. I was turning it over in my mind, and I concluded that I could try for another month. After a month, I extended it for another month. Then I got to a point where I thought I could handle it another year, I could put up with her coldness and distance for another year. I put it out of my head in the day-to-day, because I had committed to myself that I could handle it for another year. When she ignored me, excluded me, offended me, and so on, I just said to myself "ok, no problem, I can handle this. Not a surprise, just par for the course."

I thought it might be longer than a year, but I decided not to think about it until another year of the crap had passed. And I enjoyed the little things - planting a garden with my kids, riding my bike with friends, a new promotion at work. But the one thing I could not put up with was her continuing to maintain her relationship with her boyfriend. Different people have different lines. She repeatedly promised me she would stop and she repeatedly broke her promise. And the last time I just said to her - look, this is no marriage for me. You can continue to call him and see him if you want, but that's not a marriage for me. I left the house.

I am sadder now than I was then. I am away from my wife and family. I would have been happy to continue to serve her, to act as her husband, to bring home my paycheck every two weeks and to massage her feet, even while she was cold and (to my mind) confused and searching. I was ok, not happy I guess, but content with her searching. I was learning patience. But the OM was a dealbreaker for me.

What's your dealbreaker?

If he doesn't kiss you as much as you like, will you be angry at him? or will you understand that inside he is torn up, too?

If he insists on separating, will you reluctantly allow him to go, or will you break down, carry on, beg, plead, cry, make a scene, make him feel worse, after which he will go away anyway?

If he doesn't accompany you on your outings, will you pout? Or will you just ask your maker for patience and strength?

What's the dealbreaker?

Looking back, I do not regret that the continued presence of the OM in my marriage was a dealbreaker for me. That was essential for my own self respect. (Keep in mind I am not judging anyone who is able to continue in a relationship where there is an ongoing presence of another person. Like I said, everyone is different. )

No one on this board will judge you regardless where you draw your line. Your line could be already crossed - Maybe for you, if he says he does not love you, then he is being cruel and it is time for you to move on. I will not second-guess that. No one will. That is your personal call. You have every right to say that.

On the other hand there are some who say, "if he says he doesn't love me, but yet I see he treats me with love in some ways, then I take that as a sign he isn't really settled. He's ambivalent. He's searching. He's trying to figure it out. And I'm willing to wait it out, see which way the chips fall." and I won't second-guess that either.

If you do choose that latter course, then your wallowing in pain and hurt is not helping him decide. Detaching will unfetter him and allow him to do what he needs to do.

Listen I speak from experience, but not a successful one. I am no expert. This is just my take on your situation.

I wish you the best as always, and again I am so sorry for you. I know how it hurts, and no one deserves what you are going through.

[cw68]

Wow, a great post from SPM. What he described is exactly where my husband was when we separated. I *think* it's a bit better than that now, but who knows. Listen to him LMG, he gave great advice.

Yes, it sucks. I don't know what you do with all the stuff. I can't even go there in my mind right now.