Drowning still - 23 years, feel like I am sinking

[FaithfulH]

there will be a hole in my heart that only she can fill

CBK,
WRONG! I made the same mistake...that hole in your heart has the shape of GOD. In other words, only GOD can fill it. It is unfair to expect your W to fill it. Your number 1 relationship was always supposed to be with God....your W secondary...then your kids. I had this all screwed up and it was a major reason our marriage went stale. My W (nor yours or anybody else's) could ever fill that bill.

[sgctxok]

Hang in there. We're with you. You are a very good man.


Just checking in.

[sgctxok]

Why I feel the need to play fair, I have no idea.

I don't either. But I'm so glad to hear you're feeling better this morning, CBK. God is good, and won't allow us to face anything beyond which we can handle.

Puppy

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 1 Corinthians 10:12-14

[CBK]

Thank you all.

I just got back from GAL with my son. He needed to buy a car, usually we would do this as a family, but he asked if I would go with him. I called W before we bought so she would know. It was great to be out with my boy - made me feel good.

And, Faithful, you are correct, God is my top priority.

Peace,

CBK

[CBK]

Well, just a bit of journaling.

All in all, a much better day than yesterday - of course, no way to go but up from there!

I have begun the "detachment" mode...

Got home at usual time and was doing work around the house - I was going to work out, but needed to make dinner for kids, then I was going to gym. W stopped by before her dinner - told he to have fun. S19 came and asked if we could go look at cars. He has been saving his money a long time and I said sure. We ended up buying his car. W wasn't real pleased because she thinks the make has a high repair rate. It was my son's choice and I think he did a great job. He could have afforded a more sporty car, but he said this one had very low miles and was $2000 cheaper and the insurance would be cheaper. I couldn't argue. S19 took W out for spin. We watch our TV show, at the end I asked if S19 told her about decision process, he did a little, so I expanded. She still said she "hopes" it is a good car. I was a bit disappointed, she should be proud of her son for the choices he made. But, really, I was okay. I usually help her get out of her chair, been doing that for years, I put my hand out and she said she can get up by herself. I said okay and walked away. Now off to bed.

My stomach still aches, but hey, I am doing what I need to do. Tomorrow have IC and L to talk to. I will see what IC says about L as well, but right now, I am in a good place about L. Not to draw up papers or to go behind her back, but just so I know what my legal rights are in CA. I will tell W if I go. I thought about telling her tonight, but figured I better go first!

Hope my friends out there find sleep tonight. I have to say, this is the first time in weeks that I actually ate dinner and feel really tired. So no sleep aid tonight. I will kiss my two young adult kids and read my book - a good old Patterson novel - I can only read so many R books!

Peace,

CBK

[sandi2]

Dear CBK, wow.....what happened? I was just talking on your thread and it locked and the next thing I saw was a new thread and you were falling apart. It broke my heart to see you in that kind of pain and I wasn't here when you needed me. But as you saw, there are many that came to you in your time of need. I think you have had more responses the quickest of any I have ever seen.....so that says something, doesn't it? People on here care for you.

I actually cried when I read how badly you were hurting b/c you see....my H never let me see his pain. I only saw the ugly side of him. I wonder if I had seen him in that kind of agony how I would have reacted to him. I can't help but think that it would have melted my heart toward him b/c I know that I do love him and I never meant to hurt him. We tell people here on the board not to show the WAW any crying, begging, clinging, etc. b/c it shows her weakness in the H. And, that is true and I support that principle. However, like I said, if I had seen my H's raw pain like I saw in you......I just think it would have done something to me. But he would not open up and let me see that....he never has. He talked ugly to me and let me see a side of him that I never want to see again. He had every right to talk to me the way he did.....but it wasn't him.....not the real person I married. I wanted to just get away from that person b/c I did not like him. He suffered in his own private times, but I think I would have come around sooner if he had come to me and talked sweetly and softly and told me how much he loved and needed me. Now that was just my stitch.....not yours. I felt really bad about what I said or rather how I said what I did in that last post when I was saying that I had not apologized to my H and probably wouldn't as long as he proclaimed he had not done anything wrong. I have thought of hardly anything else since then. I really thought hard to remember what all was said when we were trying to reconcile. That is when he brought up about I had not apologized to him and I knew I could not do it in the "way" he wanted me to. However, I wanted you to know that I do remember telling him at one point in our talks that I was sorry for what I had done and as I told you last night, I had told him that I never wanted to hurt him. I do still have resentment that I battle, but it is from many years and it is hard to turn lose and have that fresh mind set of a beginner's R. Just kind of wanted to clear that up, b/c I don't know why I said it like I did other that I was putting myself back in that time frame and feeling those same feelings over again. That is one reason that I tell people that it is not always good to ask a lot of questions about the affair after you have reconciled with your spouse b/c it makes them have to mentally put themselves back in time to that place and it brings back those feelings that they are trying to put away and forget about. They don't want to "remember" the A and all the details. IMHO, most people had rather try to just start over and put it behind them. Although I believe that Michelle says that if the LBS asked questions to try to answer them to help them have closure. I suppose it depends on the couple and their stitch. I only tell you this b/c I have a feeling that you will need to tuck it away for future references.

Anyway, back to you......like I said, it kind of scared me when I saw the panic mode you were in. I almost called you "honey"....lol, I have got to stop calling people honey and sweetie, besides Puppy doesn't like it....(just a joke there Puppy). Believe it or not, I agreed with what Puppy told you in his post.....one of them, I can't remember if it was the second or which one, but I do think you should protect yourself financially b/c is sounds like she may do something drastic at any time. On the other hand.....who knows, it may be all talk.

You see, you cannot believe her. This is not your wife. She is a stranger that you do not know or understand. You will never figure her out and you can't fix her or the R. That are the cold hard facts and that is why I told you that you have got to stop this asking "where and what happen to my wife.....why is she doing this?" She is gone! How long it may take her to wake up and come out of the fog....it depends. It sounds like she has made up her mind, but then we have heard that before from others here on the board. There have been stories where they were like four days away from the divorce and than reconcile. Sometimes it takes getting the divorce to wake them up to what they have done and what it is they really want.....which is their H and family.

Don't give her the house. Whatever you do, don't leave the house. Try your best to not throw her out on her behind. If she does leave......don't give her once red cent to support her! I mean it. If my H had given me money to live on my own.....I would have been out of here! But, he wasn't going to and he told me he would never give me a divorce. But there again, my stitch was a little different from yours. However, I do not believe in supporting the WAW. Don't do anything to help her. I known H's that actually helped their WAW move their stuff.....b/c they were trying to be her "friend". Well, people look at things differently, don't we?

The next time (if there is a next time) that you get in this bad a shape......go get a motel room and spend the night just to get away and be alone. You can tell your kids that you are going to be gone and give them a number to call or your cell phone, but you don't have to give out information to your wife about what you are doing. I also would recommend that since you are having such a hard time right now that you do not accept any invitations to "couples" bar-b-Que" or anything, b/c it is too much of a strain, and you feel like a hypocrite playing this game with her in front of your friends. They probable already suspect something is going on. People have their ways, you known.

I do plead with you not to snoop any more. I can only imagine the temptation to do that, but think of the hurt it has caused you. You will end up having a heart attack or something if you keep this up. You can fix her CBK. I'm so sorry, but you just can't make her be your wife again. That is what my H said to me....the only thing he said that really touched my heart when we were talking our talk. He said, "I just want my wife back again". At that time, I did not know if I could do it or not and I told him that I was just then at the point of being willing..."to be willing". I hope that makes sense.

One of the hardest things for us humans to do seems to be to just turn it all over to God. I know....you hear that all the time. But, like I said.....you can't fix her, but if she is a Believer, God can fix her. Of course, she has to want to be fixed. She has got to want to live in His obedience. But He also can intervene in a person's life to cause them to see and hear enough that will get them to really thinking about what they are doing wrong. I have learned that He is quite the gentleman and as long as we insist on handling our own problems....He will politely stand aside and allow us to do that. Of course, we always make a mess of it when we do! Then when we hit rock bottom, we turn to Him and ask for Him to do it for us. I think you pretty much hit rock bottom last night. I hope you will rest in Him to do the work on your W and don't pick it all back up and try to carry the burden of what she is doing around on your back. Give it to God. Live your own life and get your focus off of that stranger in your house and go on about your business. Like you have already stated....stop being the victim in your own home. In you own life, as far as that goes.

Maybe you have posted this in the past, and please forgive me for not remembering....I read so many threads that I forget, but have you just really told her the pain that you are in or has she only seen the ugly side of you? I was just curious to know. So many men come here and tell us things that makes me wonder if they have actually told their W's that or if they just think she should already know that.

If it comes to a divorce, if I were you, I would write all my feelings out on paper to give to her. You have held back a lot and have come here to vent....and that is good, but I personally think that if would give you a sense of closure to be able to do that. In fact, I think that Michelle suggests the same thing as a LRT by telling the wife how you feel and that you want the M to work but if she is so persistent in leaving, you wont' stop her and that you plan to move on with your life. And, then do that.....go get a life and stop thinking about the woman you use to have. I hope and pray some day you will have the opportunity to start seeing glimpses of that girl you married 23 years ago, but it will take time. I am not one to mark a time set on the calendar for these matters......they don't work on time clocks. I do know what you meant though by what you said by giving her a year to see if she was going to get out of the A, etc.

I feel like I have just repeated myself of things I've said before. I wanted you to know that my heart hurts for you, sweetie, and I wish I could give you a big hug and tell you not to give up....even in the darkest of dark nights.....please don't give up on yourself above all. I know you have kids and family that love you and need you in their lives and you must think about them. You will. And it will get better.....it is just too hard to see that at this point.

Try to rest and eat right. That is important. I am concerned that you are going to get sick. You have lost too much weight too quickly!

Well, I'm sounding like your mama (lol), but maybe that's okay too. I kind of get attached to some of you.

If you will just stay away from the snooping, I think you will get a grip again and can go from there.....but if you snoop....it will be to do all over again. When tempted, remember what it did to you this last time.

Hope you get some sleep. It is after midnight and I have got to get into bed. I want you to be okay. We all do b/c we care about you.

Keep talking to us, okay?

Catch you later,
Sandi

[FaithfulH]

tomorrow have IC and L to talk to. I will see what IC says about L as well, but right now, I am in a good place about L. Not to draw up papers or to go behind her back, but just so I know what my legal rights are in CA. I will tell W if I go. I thought about telling her tonight, but figured I better go first!

CBK,

Be careful with how you handle this with your W! What are you going to say? I was looking through your stuff and I found out you have a L so I'm gettin' one too?....Or I just thought you should know that I went to see a L today? Both of these are loaded with problems. This is why I tried to tell you to wait. Some Lawyers will only spin you up on all the fears you should be aware of....remember they make more money if you D...not R! I don't mean to say that every lawyer is unethical...just remember what feeds THEIR kids. This is an area where others will surely have a different opinion. I established mine based on these 3 things:

• IF your W has a L and you get papers, you will have plenty of time to respond
  
• You might be wrong about what you THINK your W is doing....and you wouldn't know about it anyway except for the snooping
  
• Lawyers don't generally help you move TOWARDS reconciliation

Hope this helps!

BTW, I am glad you are grounded again! Stay strong for the battle!

[sandi2]

CBK, I agree with FaithfulH, don't say anything to your W about seeing a L. Just don't bring up any of that stuff about you protecting yourself, etc. FaithfulH is right, a L is more likely to push you to the next level in the procedure......for his own gain....not for what is good for your M. After all, he is there to make money, he is not a MC.

Speaking of MC, I may be wrong, but I still believe that seeing a C together is not beneficial to the two of you right now. It seems to keep the hurt open and raw between you. It doesn't seem that anything positive is coming from these sessions. She is too deep in her own fantasy world to get through to her right now. A lot of prayer and time (and a miracle thrown in wouldn't hurt)is about what you have to cling to at this moment. However, things do change and they can change suddenly. We never know what the next day may hold for any of us......so again, I am trying to get you to see things realistically, but still tell you not to give up hope yet. Like I said, even if she divorces you......there can still be hope until she is actually married to another.

Stop thinking of her as the wife you had. Think of her as somebody different in your home. B/c that is what she is at this time. I know this all seems so insane.........it is insane! It is like people go off the deep end. Call it the "times that we live in" or MLC or whatever.....but this board if packed full of stories just like yours. Just think what it is like all over the world. So sad, isn't it?

I'm thinking of you this morning, as I go off to work. I know you have so much on your mind......I don't know how you are able to do your own job dealing with this at home.

You have lots of people pulling for you, remember that. There are prayers going up. Keep the faith.

Sandi

[Puppy Dog Tails]

CBK,

I'm a little buried at work, but I did want to check in on your thread and comment.

- I DO think you should see a lawyer, just for a consultation, and to learn of your options for protecting yourself and to learn what to expect. I would normally NOT tell you to tell your wife about this, and was only suggesting that because you feel so compelled to honor your promises to her. DO know that a family law attorney will operate from a bias towards divorce, as that's their expertise, and that's how they make their livelihood. Simply tell her or him that you're trying to learn more about the process, get some questions answered, and identify some potential threats and protect yourself.

- I DO NOT think you should snoop for the time being, as you seem unable to handle the fallout, and you know what your wife is doing pretty much anyway. Just work on you, and on your plan

- I DO NOT think MC is effective while one of the marital partners is in an active affair. A waste of time and money, and like Sandi said, it's only bringing out things that are taking you off of your gameplan. DETACH.

Sandi, I wanted to add that yours was a beautiful, thoughtful post. I think I've learned a lot more about where you're coming from. You are absolutely right, we have to "let go, and let God" and that is VERY hard to do, especially for men. We are, by nature, "fixers" and problem-solvers, and it's so hard to let go and give our wives to Him. But do it we must.

Puppy

[CBK]

Sandi - good to hear from you.

Yes, I went downhill very quickly, to my own doing. I hit rock bottom and started to try and dig deeper. Much better today.

Please don't feel bad about what you said, I understood completely the message. I do a pretty good job filtering, just not a good job listening!

You see, you cannot believe her. This is not your wife. She is a stranger that you do not know or understand. You will never figure her out and you can't fix her or the R. That are the cold hard facts and that is why I told you that you have got to stop this asking "where and what happen to my wife.....why is she doing this?" She is gone!

I am slowly starting to realize this. She is in an entirely different world right now - very cold and hurtful toward me - I think that has been the most difficult thing. I did turn a corner yesterday. This morning she said she was going downstairs and getting breakfast then going to work. I said in a cheery mood - Have a great day. I am trying to act "as if". However, the voice she used was very sullen and strained. I didn't let that affect my response. I hope to see that beautiful personality again some day - that is what drew us together. I see a glimpse every once-in-awhile.

Don't give her the house. Whatever you do, don't leave the house. Try your best to not throw her out on her behind. If she does leave......don't give her once red cent to support her! I mean it.

I don't plan on putting her out on her behind. I need to remember that, even though very painful, having her here in the house is an okay thing. Once I get more detached, it will be easier. If she does move out, do we go with serapate accounts? I guess that makes sense. I don't want to support her WAWing from this marriage, and if she chooses to do so, she will have to do on her own.


I hope there is not a next time I get in such bad shape. I was able to pull myself together and get home, even though W was here, I didn't talk to her and went upstairs and read in my room - well, that is what she thought... Once I settle down, I can usually do okay. My kids are my strength, so coming home was important to me for some healing. But I will not rule out getting a room. I actually have a buddy that has said just knock on his door, no questions asked. I may take him up on that.

have you just really told her the pain that you are in or has she only seen the ugly side of you?

On Sunday, I did tell her the pain I was in, very heartfelt, even though I was crying when I said it, I was able to compose my voice and really tell her about my pain. I said that nobody really knows this pain until it happens. I also acknowledged her pain, that how hard it must have been for her as she watched our R crumble and didn't know what to do. She said she used to cry for me at one time, but the love was slipping away from her. I am sure she heard what I said, but I know she twisted it (darn snooping). But like you said, this isn't my W anymore.

If it does come to D, I will write all my feelings out. I owe that to myself. I hope it doesn't come to that, but that is a reality. I say a year - just so I have something to shoot for. I may make it, I may not. Right now, I would give her 5 years, but know that isn't realistic. I need to get on with my life now and hopefully we will reconnect someday.

As for MC - I am going to ask that maybe we either stop going or just go once a month. MC is not helping me what so ever. It sets me back if that is possible. I am just going to say that although I am glad we are in counseling together, I need to work on myself with my IC, if W thinks this are important for her, I would reconsider - something like that. Also, I will probably go to the BBQ, it is a neighborhood thing and not just couples. I may not hang out as long as W, but I am actually okay with this. Now that isn't for a few days, so may change my mind.

The weight thing is bothering me a lot. I ate last night, having the kids home help as we sit down as a family for dinner, yes, W included. I need to level off as I need to take my pants and suits to the tailor!

Work is suffering a bit, but I am lucky that I have a great assistant that is taking care of me. We are restructuring and my job is changing dramatically, which is even more stressful, plus a job offer on the table and my current job wants me to take on a VP role in Chicago. So talk about stress!

I am doing okay, would be lying if I said great.

I will keep you all posted as I go through this. Feel free to call me anything you would like, not a problem. I am a hugger and miss my W's hugs.

Peace,

CBK