No R Talks??????

[talitsa]

Thanks, LL. It helps to know that what I'm feeling is common. Is that thread in this forum?

I'm just feeling frustrated. H keeps wanting "appreciation" for the C work he is doing and how hard that is for him to open up and really spill his guts to a stranger. Most of the time, it sounds like what he wants is my pity.

Now I'm thinking...not only was he acting like a kid that trashed his room and then said "this room sucks", I want to move...now that he's thinks he's been unrealistic and a bit immature..now he's whining that he has to grow up a little and get to work cleaning his room.

Now he's throwing a pity party for himself and I'm supposed to say, "oh poor baby, I'm sorry you have to grow up a bit!". Despite a lot of the good stuff (I know he doesn't REALLY want to lose me) I still see him basing so many of his actions on HIS feelings, HIS comfort level.

Where is the US in that?

Oh and by the way, wasn't I the one who was betrayed???

All the while he was trashing the room, I didn't go out an betray him even though I was not being treated very well. I stayed committed and kept trying to get him to talk to me and work on some of our R problems. I did feel sorry for him at the time because I knew he was depressed--but now I don't because I know what he was doing to deceive me.

The problem is, I know OW would attend his pity party. She or someone like her would be willing to bake a cake and put on little party hats. Barf!

That seems like a no win situation to me LL! I can feel pity for him that he has to deal with the realization that he forgot what was important to him AFTER he f***ed everything up. I don't feel sorry for him having to clean up the mess and grow the heck up.

If I don't (get me a barf bag) say, "oh poor baby", he just might go find someone else who will tell him what he want to hear. Do I have to compromise myself that much to save my R?

[shinybear]

First, thanks for your post to me about your educational past and upbringing...ever think of writing stories? A novel? (I AM a wannabe writer)

Second...wow some latent anger coming out...take a breath...don't panic...I think MOST of us (ALL?) have felt that way. We get to that fragile, strange point where we feel like MAYBE we can breathe again. They've recommitted, they want US . We've "won"....But WHAT have we won ?

Someone who is still confused, someone who has yet to really DEAL with the full impact of what they've done, someone who is finally getting help to figure out what some of his issues are (CJ had some sessions too), someone who IS STILL NOT GETTING that they should be, as my mother so nicely put it, "on their hands and knees kissing your feet for putting up with it all!"

Tal, it does take time. What it sounds like you're worried about is that maybe some of YOUR issues might not get fully addressed. You sound rightfully pissed that you've been doing ALL this work for so long, here he is just "starting" (and focussing on himself too boot) and you're supposed to cheer him on.

Well, you know, at the time when I felt this with CJ, I did listen to what he was dealing with. Some of it, I didn't agree with, but I listened and I did encourage him.

But I FELT like you do some of the time. Tired and a little resentful! But It HAS come around to where it's a much more equitable sharing and hopefully, hearing.

So don't let it get you down...we all had/have those thoughts!

Shiny

[talitsa]

I'm a wannabe writer too!

I know that what I'm feeling is probably pretty "been there, done that" to most of you guys who have been doing this much longer than I. I know I do get pretty intense, but I save it all up for this bb and do my best to stay calm and focused when talking to H (you'd never be able to tell from my posts could you?)

I'm just still reeling from that batch of IM crap that jumped out at me. I was feeling so much like I was pushing myself to start hoping and trusting again--then BAM, biffed in the nose! It took me back to how I felt after the bomb. Maybe I'm expecting too much of myself, to let it just roll off my back because it was a remnant of the past. You are the expert in the field, do you think we could all have some post-traumatic stress symptoms?

Anywho, H called and even though I'm trying hard to be upbeat, he can tell I'm still bothered by the whole IM thing. (then of course, I felt guilty because I've been raking him over mental coals!). He said I deserve to know whatever I want to know about the whole episode--his infidelity. Said we could talk after MC session tomorrow.

Now, for quite a while I have had a lot of questions. I asked some of it early on, so I know little bits and pieces that fit together. I quit asking about it a while back because when we did talk about our R, it was stuff the MC had us do, and busy resolving things--negotiating things--so I haven't brought up any questions about the infidelity.

Now he seems to be willing to tell me his story. Part of me feels like I just want to get it over with--rip the bandaid off quickly, so to speak. I have read a lot of people's posts on this board who still had a lot of questions about OW/OM that continue to haunt them. DBing suggests NOT bringing up these type of discussions, but also warns the unfaithful ones that their partners may have a great deal of questions.

Now, apparently, I have the opportunity to ask whatever I want to know. I know it's going to hurt like hell. I'm wondering if I should tell H I'd like to wait to have that conversation after he comes home so I won't have to go home to be alone with that information. I know I'm not doing well with H still being gone. The anxiety level is almost overwhelming sometimes--not just the separation, but having to deal with a houseful of teenagers, the the financial mess this "episode" has put us in, trying to keep the utilities from being shut off for non-payment, and still have enough brain left over to work full time.

In Chapter 10 of DR, it talks about how common it is to feel stronger when physically with H or W, but feel like a complete mess when they are not. I can totally relate to that, but I only see H briefly for a few hours a week, and he stays over 2 nights a month. Due to his work schedule, that's all that I see him, and sometimes not even that for the last 5 months.

I have always thought myself to be a very strong person, but this infidelity and H's leaving has brought me to my knees in a way that I have never experienced before, even though I've lived through some very difficult things in the past.

What would you do? I know you know the gory details of your H's infidelity. Would you rather have not known? If you had the choice over whether to have some say over when you knew the details, would you have chosen to wait until after you felt like things had sort of normalized between you and CJ?

Crap, I feel like a real mess right now and I'm even considering going in to Dr. and asking for anti-Ds and maybe even something for anxiety. The stress of this separation..."will he, won't he, if so, when?" while I am left to stuggle with all the real life stuff--it is taking a toll on me. I feel like H had taken a real vacation from responsibilities and reality before he left (far more so now) and maybe I feel like running away from it all too sometimes but I can't!

[sage]

Does anyone ever wonder sometimes if they even want to save their M or if it is worth the work?

Yup.

For me, it generally happens after a particular incident occurs -- like, I hit a wall of insecurity and anxiety and think "wouldn't this be easier/better with someone else?" (then I remind myself this is the WAS mentality -- BUT then I say -- OK, but wouldn't it be better if only for a LITTLE while? BUT, isn't THAT the mentality that our spouses had? I'll dally a bit and feel wonderful about myself and ....)

Sometimes it happens when I just feel tired as hell. Like I've been working my A$$ off for what?

And sometimes it happens when I'm with people who seem to have what I want -- my sister and her BF and 9 month old. My extended family and their new babies. Sometimes even on this BB when I read of a communication breakthru for someone else.

I see a lot of work on your part. And some on h's part too?

In another post you mention starting again with a beginner's mind -- FUNNY -- that's gonna be the gist of my new thread...started re-reading DR and made a list of things messing with my beginner's mind.

Sage

[sage]

That seems like a no win situation to me LL! I can feel pity for him that he has to deal with the realization that he forgot what was important to him AFTER he f***ed everything up. I don't feel sorry for him having to clean up the mess and grow the heck up.

If I don't (get me a barf bag) say, "oh poor baby", he just might go find someone else who will tell him what he want to hear. Do I have to compromise myself that much to save my R?

Tal -- a toughie to be sure. Easier said than done but can you recognize and validate his pain w/o condoning it? Sort of a compassionate view for how screwed up, how hurt he must have been feeling to come flying into the room and stomp all over everything that had been built (like a 3 year old). And now he's trying to rebuild it but whiny at the same time. I'm not trying to sound judgemental or self-righteous at him (at my h?) -- even though it's of his own creation, it must hurt him too? maybe even more to know that HE messed up?

I don't think you lose yourself by allowing him some pain too.

On really good days, I'm even successful at feeling compassion of ow.

Sage

[talitsa]

Well, I'm going to try pulling out of this little emotional melt-down. Too many things setting me off this last week. Thanks for putting up with me and all my venting.

But, angry and alone isn't where I want to be. I want a better R with H--not the old stuff, new stuff. That means I have to stop obsessing about all the stuff I'm hurt and angry about. Those feelings will be there, but I don't have to feed them and let them take me over. I sure as heck don't want to sabotage myself at this point.

So back to work on this...um...project. It's a new week and I'm going to start working on improving a beginner's mindset.

[talitsa]

This is just to help me remember:


You Are My Kind

Stay with me baby
That's all I ask of you
And I know that someday
You won't remember
The way that this moment feels to you
Don't let it go
Don't turn your back on what you think you know
You never know you know
Don't leave it alone
Cause I need you to cling to

Cause you are my kind
You're all that I want
Here in this life
Until we are gone
Our breath and our skin
Our hearts and our minds
They're one and the same
You are my kind

Well call on me baby
If you should ever need someone
To help get your head straight
I'll be your resident all night
Sure am glad just having you around
Well all that I know
When you find love you never let it go
You never know you know
Without you I'm lost
I get scattered
I'm shattered

Cause you are my kind
You're all that I want
Here in this life
Until we are gone
Our breath and our skin
Our hearts and our minds
They're one and the same
Cause you are my kind
We're one and the same
You are my kind

Don't let it go
Don't turn your back on what you think you know
You never know you know
Don't leave it alone
Cause I need you to cling to


Cause you are my kind
You're all that I want
Here in this life
Until we are gone
Our breath and our skin
Our hearts and our minds
They're one and the same
Cause you are my kind

Our love and our life
My heart and my soul
Need you tonight
Your love makes me whole
And it's all I can stand
Until you come home
I need you tonight
Cause you are my kind
I need you tonight
Cause you are my kind

[Jeannine]

"Does anyone ever wonder sometimes if they even want to save their M or if it is worth the work?"

Everyday.

I just try to remember that if my H could go from being a pillar to a pile of poop, what guarantee will I have that someone else, who appears to be "it", won't do the same?

I have too much invested in this man to just walk off into the sunset. And as Sage so wisely put it, giving up and hooking up with someone else, is pretty much the WAS's mentality. And as WAS's are not high on my "People I Admire the Most" list, I'm not eager to join their club.

Jeannine

[talitsa]

No, WAS's aren't high on my admiration list either, and I'm not going there.

I know things will get better. They already have started getting much better, and I know it. How much better will things get is hard to say right now.

I really don't want to give up at all, I think Sage is right...I'm just afraid my issues won't get addressed and my basic needs will not be met. Mostly, I'm just physically and emotionally exhausted.

[shinybear]

Oh yes, I'd say a lot of us suffer from either PTSD symptoms or at the very least Acute Stress symptoms. Mine included (very rarely now) the "flash backs" I've mentioned...intense visual images of H and OW together, or him writing to her, sending packages, buying his plane tickets...along with a full body spasm...YUP.

Not to mention appetite changes (I lost weight in the beginning), sleep changes, mood swings...I'm VERY grateful that I saw my MD and got some meds within DAYS of bomb #1.
It was a long time coming for me, but I have no regrets.

Oh yes and about the "details". Tal, I'm just someone who's gotta know. CJ offered and I took him up on it. Now this didn't happen in one big BLAHHGGGHHH!

Rather, CJ let me know that I could ask for details, and after our initial discussion, more questions did come up (I'd say about 80% of the ones asked so far were asked within the first month or so...depending on which "bomb" ).

CJ hated it, must have made him feel like absolute sh!t, some of those times...recanting his sins. Mostly I was calm or crying, just wanting to know. I tried to make it as safe for him to tell me as I could, (no rage), while still allowing my emotions to speak...I cry easily.

Take in as much as you can handle and no more. If sexual details will drive you crazy, don't ask. I've asked some, but not all. CJ did have HIV/STD tests. (Not happy about it, but who would be?).

Personally, I'm glad CJ was forthcoming. Now just for an added twist...I don't have a whole lot of info on A#1...for some reason the details there just didn't seem as important...I've even forgotten her name on occasion!
I think that's a good thing?


Shiny