For the guys with kids and a WAW

[karen43]

I agree Puppy! (Say hi to choceyes for me! )That is a wonderful post with such good advice! Just stopping by H4H to say hi and glad you have great advisors!!! It sounds like you have a good attitude and I think that is so important!!! Karen

[whatdidido]

Ok, I just got through ALL of your posts and reading your situation. I see myself in your wife. I hate it that I see myself in your wife. She is not where I am yet, but I believe she will be. This thing she is getting from the OM is so powerful and real to her. I'm still dealing with this myself as you know.

Here are my thoughts from "the other side". You are getting lots of advice from others in your position. In my gut, and being christian, I knew the right thing to do...but, because of my past with H and the pain I felt for so many years I was unable to be strong enough to do what was right. I was weak. Have you ever asked her what it would take to keep you two together? Have you ever sat down and asked that....even if it ends up being "for me to love you which I don't think is possible". Because from there you tell her it is possible and you make steps to show her. You explain that she is addicted right now and "in love" to the OM right now, but that that can happen again with you two if she works with you. She will need to have no contact and you will both need to have counseling or do the retrouvaille weekend or a combination or just time. You tell her, if anything, it is worth it for the kids. You convince her that she will always look back and think she never tried enough. If anything, she needs to KNOW under no uncertain terms that she has tried EVERYTHING possible and has made absolutely positive sure that happiness is not possible before D. You tell her that it might take time. You tell her if she says she will do the "No contact" that you will need her phone and she will need to get rid of the myspace, etc. and she will have to deal with you asking questions constantly about where is is, etc. I told my H he has every right to call me at anytime and expect that I answer and if I don't then he has a right to find out exactly where I was, etc.

This is all easier said than done. For me, what it took, was my H showing interest in me again and he went to see a counselor to try to "fix" his lack of emotion. I needed to see him wanting to work on us, and I needed to see him try to do something to change. The minute he did this, I started my process of trying to end the A. I was this OM's gf for a year, and was another OM's gf the year before and my H didn't know. That alone shows you how "detached" he was from me. What also made it clear to me was when the OM wanted to move to the next step, I couldn't do it. I don't want to be a part time mom. I would be absolutely miserable not kissing my son every night before he goes to bed and having him run to me every morning saying, "Mama!!!!" I need my son EVERY day and I believe he needs me every day. I want my marriage to this wonderful man work for me, for him, and for my son. Your wife needs to want it to work for those reasons, too.

When in the throes of the A, everything is clouded because needs are being met and this OM is loving her like she has never been loved before and she is constantly reminded that. Everything reminds her of the OM...the songs (OMG I tear up when I hear them), the places they went, the things that are said that remind them of something the OM said that was sooo wonderful, the way the OM holds them that you have never held them, the way the OM calls them "baby" and you have never called her "baby", the way the OM understands her so much more than you have ever understood her, the way the OM has fun like you have never had fun.......this is what you are dealing with........

She has to want a family more than she wants to be happy herself at this point. She has to have a small sliver of a hope that she can be happy in the future with you...as happy as she is with the OM but maybe in a different way....a better way.

Ok, I have been on here wayyy tooo long and I need to get doing some things. I will come back on later and post some more. BOy, I am drained.

[CBK]

WDID -

This is such a helpful post. Especially one of the last paragraphs starting with 'When in the throes of the A..." This is where my W is right now.

Please keep posting, your wisdom and insights are so valuable.

CBK

[JeffSTL]

Great insight whatdidido

MY POST

whatdidido, do we detach from WAW or what, I'm trying to work on myself and also trying to show W that she is wanted and loved. But I know OM is still in the picture and boy does she want him and not me based upon the last letter I found. I know snooping isn't the best idea, I'm pretty much over that, I just remember the last letter to remind me how bad W has it for OM

I keep talking about wanting her out because it means she made a decision and I can move on with my life. I would prefer that she wanted to work things out but thats up to her

Trying to stay happy while my heart gets ripped out. Dreaming of love and affection and getting little of either.

M45
W41
D9, D6, D6, S5
M 10 years
OM confirmed 12/07 merry christmas to me
PA confirmed 03/08

[hopeful4her]

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Each one of you has given me some insight from your life experiences that are invaluable. Fantastic thoughts.

WDID, thank you. Your insight is especially invaluable. You can give us the view from the inside that we need so much.

Sir, words of wisdom that I will mostly act on at some point. Keeping track of things with the kids is first on the list.

Puppy, you are not hokey. Some people are driven by the Holy Spirit to help others. I have a new coworker this year who was going through a divorce when I met him. He was being a WS and strangely enough, he was actually helping me to GAL. He was living it up, but I could tell that he was not truly happy and when his W filed for divorce, he was upset. I talked to him everyday and gave him my perspective and what I believe is Gods perspective. He tried to help me have fun. He is now reunited with his W. I did play a part. I have seen it work. It can be done. He gives me hope. God can move mountains.

Puppy, my parents do know that WW wants out of the marriage through conversations with me and WW talking to my mother. They are at the point of having nothing to do with her, but will remain friendly because of the kids. They are very confused. They may have an idea, but do not tell me anything.

You may be right. It seems like the time is ripe for something to happen.

Sunday morning, get breakfast going as usual and everyone wakes up by themselves. The smell of coffe, bacon and pancakes always does that. It is just WW, myself and D11. D6 was still at grandma's, and S14 spent the weekend with his BF(biological father). Normal interactions, eating, small talk. We begin to get ready for church and I find WW on computer looking at bank account. She then announces to me that she is not going to church and that she going to go pick up D6. I ask if she is sure, and quickly responds, "Positive. I am going to spend some time with her."

Now, since she figured out that my check was no longer going into the bank account the other day and mentioned it to me, I had told her that I was going to put some money into it. I forgot. She probably saw the account was low and got pi**ed. D11 found out WW was not going to church and asked if she could hang out with mom. WW agreed, so I got ready and left for church. 5 minutes after leaving, I called WW to warn her about a state trooper on the highway. It sounded like she was already getting in the car to leave. Just before I get to church, I call her back and ask if she will consider coming to church because we skipped last week. Again, with out thinking she said OK. A little stern, but OK.

She finally shows up and sits next to me. During our greet time, no greeting for me. No handshake. I usually get my hug here. Ok, she's definatly pi**ed at me. I was guessing before, but now I no for sure. Pastor stressed the repentance of sins, today. Giving it to God. We will be forgiven, but we have to repent. Please listen, I think to myself. At the end of the sermon, I go to the altar to pray and she is right there next to me. I am praying, she is praying and sobbing. After a while, we all go back to our seats, but WW stays and is the last one. She stays at the altar until we are dismissed.

We quietly walk to go get D11, and I can't stand it anymore. We are outside the childrens building and I ask her what happpened this morning. She shrugs and says "nothing" and starts crying again. I tell her I know it is the account, and I apologize for not depositing money. She says "as long as there is money for groceries, I don't care anymore." I apologize again and tell her that she's the one that told me what she wanted. She cuts me off and says "and I still do. It is making things easier to seperate. This is not the place." She is crying and D11 comes out and we head to our cars. I am thinking to myself, she tells me one thing, but does she really mean it? Does she really want to leave me?

At her car, I ask what she was planning after picking up D6. She mentioned a couple of stores and D11 whines. She asks me what I wanted to do. I am surprised at her question. I throw out some ideas and she tells me to leave my car and ride with them. On the way to my parents, she asks me about picking up some pan dulce(sweet bread for you gringos). Pick up D6, pick up some pan dulce and head to a pizza buffet. We are talking. I am giving her pieces of the bread to eat while she is driving. All back to normal. After a few hours of eating and game playing, head home. I begin to work on the cars, she is cleaning the kitchen. Nephew and friend are home and WW jokes about getting them to work on the yard. I take charge and tell the boys to work on the leaves outside. Everyone is doing something. I know that WW noticed. Usually, WW will not tell the boys to do something. She expects them to be mind readers and take the initative. They don't and it builds up in her until she explodes one day. I usually want her to say something to them, because I want her to say something to the boys, not me. Tell them what you want. She just has a problem doing this. I think she has always wanted me to take charge, but I didn't. I did this time and she noticed. I am not the same.

I keep thinking of a movie with Jennifer Lopez and Mark Anthony. I true story about some singer in the 70's. At some point, he is cheating on her and taking drugs. They are fighting and he tells her he wants out. She screams at him, "You are never going to leave me! NEVER!!" I want to tell WW this.

She asks me questions about the Power of Attorney we talked about on Saturday and takes out a copy of the one her client gave to her to look over. That tells me that the reason she went to the law section at the bookstore was to look at info on POA's. It just so happened to have divorce and custody books, also. Still not sure.

We talk about her client again, and print out a different POA to give him to look at. I am enjoying our time together. She even came out of the shower in a towel and changed into her night gown in front of me. Not facing me, but still. The night before, she did the same thing. Surprised the heck out of me. Took her pants off right in front of me.

OK, cut it out. Thats my wife your picturing.

WW gets up in the middle of the night with acid reflux and comes back to bed. I get up and get her a cough drop for her coughing and clearing her throat. In the morning, I make my lunch and ask her if she wants lunch. She says yes, and I make her a lunch. I have to leave early again, and I am still considering hugging her goodbye, but decide against.

I am leaving and she tell me to have a good day and thanks me for her lunch.

I am going to kill this woman with love and kindness. I have my 2x4 waiting, though. At some point, I will do like WDID said. Sit her down again and ask her what it is that we can do. Together. Her actions say something different that her words. Compared to others on this board, I seeminly have it easy.

I do feel in control.

[fightingirish]

Hopeful..

Your doing wonderfully!! Wow.. love the killing her with kindness attitude!!... My H would never get up in the middle of the night and get me anything... she doesn't know how luck she is.

Have good day!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I do feel in control.

You are. Keep it up!

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hopeful,

I know you already know this, but it is IMPERATIVE that you don't forget again to transfer the necessary funds to meet your family's needs. Your wife has probably made note of your slip-up, and in the frame of mind she's in right now, she WILL use it against you at some point, you can count on it.

Make a note in your Outlook calendar or set an alarm on your cellphone if you have to. Keep the majority of your funds separate, but do NOT forget to transfer the funds necessary to meet your family's basic needs.

Document everything, and I do think you should see a good family law attorney -- preferably one that specializes in "men's rights" and men's custody issues -- and at least get a consultation.

Puppy

[hopeful4her]

Taking note. It is always the one step forward and two steps back with me. I end up doing something dumb at a critical time.

The thing that WDID on her thread, about the different life and how OM is convincing her that it will be better with him, has me thinking a lot. I can just see into WW's mind that if she stays, she just cannot picture life better than it was. Only the same. That is going to be key. She has admitted to seeing the changes in me. Last week, she told me that it had to take this to get me to change. She hates where we live. It is a long distance to get to the city. About 20 drive to get just to the outskirts of San Antonio. Everything like work, school, stores is in San Antonio. I told her last week, we can sell the house. I told her the house is just stuff. What is important is the people in the house.

At one point in our heated discussion last week, she said "The reason I'm moving out is because everything is so far. I want to be closer to town. It's inconvenient." Thats when I mentioned selling the house. That was her excuse for wanting to move out. Not all the other stuff that has come out her mouth. This will be key, I think.

[CBK]

H4H - you and I got the same insight from WDID - she can only imagine life like it was and cannot picture better. My W said the same thing last night, she has seen changes in me, but is still afraid it may be too late and doesn't want to go back. I said neither do I, only want a new chapter, not a new book!

Thinking of you and your sitc.

CBK