Even though my H "said" he was willing to work on "us" while the A was still lurking...IT NEVER FELT RIGHT TO ME...he never spoke the words "I LOVE YOU" or really expressed his sorrow over what he'd done until his A was REALLY over.
You are smart, your are wise, you are intuitive (heck you caught him out by just "feeling" something was up, right???)...if you HADN'T seen that crap yesterday...what was your intuition telling you for the past while???
I think we all know the answer to that...and it's a good one!
My intuition back then told me something was wrong. I also started having dreams where his ancestor (one that H has a connection with and shares his Indian name) was coming to me--showing me. Each night, I was shown a little more. I was even shown what OW looked like and that's how I recognized her when I went to their work. I'm kindof spooky like that, but it's not a too-uncommon thing for people like me to have certain gifts in my culture.
My intuition now telling me that for a long time, H has been in conflict with himself and in conflict over what he wanted. I'm still not sure this conflict has been resolved and he has never acknowledged to this day that he was never really committed to me and to our lives together.
I did talk to him briefly on the phone about this a little bit today. I told him some remnants of his infidelity had come up and bit me on the nose.
**************** I refuse to use the term "affair" when we talk between us. The word implies some romantic thing and places the emphasis on THIER R. What H did was betrayal, infidelity, dishonesty, and cheating and there nothing romantic about that. ***************
Well, I said I was feeling pretty shakey and wanted to know if he was really clear on what he wanted now.
He said, "didn't I tell you that last weekend? Are you asking me if I am really serious about setting the date for a wedding?"
I told I wanted to hear him tell me today. Was that OK? And if I needed to ask every day for a long time, would that be OK?
He laughed, but said that would be ok.
And I said that everyone was entitled to their private thoughts and private time, but I need to know that he was absolutely clear that he wasn't entitled to have big hidden, secretive parts of his life where he could betray me and lie to me about.
Yes, he said, he knew that was not ok and would never be ok.
He wanted to know what had set me off, but I told him I'd talk to him about it tomorrow when we are face to face. We have both agreed, unequivicably, that monogamy is a absolute requirement, for both of us, if we are to reconcile. That's good, but it is an agreement in prinicpal. I want to be very clear that, to me, monogamy includes very clear boundaries with acquaintences of the other gender, it also includes secretive and overly-intimate email/telephone buddies. The worst part to me was not knowing about the physical involvement with XOW, it the way they conived--waiting for me to go asleep, etc. It was that H made concious decision, each step along the way, to betray me and our R.
Basically, what I mean when I say I expect monogamy is that if there is even an inkling that I really wouldn't like it if I knew about it....don't freaking do it in the first place!
I, too, had dreams, two in one night, of H having sex with a "blonde woman"...when OW #2 sent me her "glamour shot" (B!tch!!! ) voila, there was my nightmare.
(Have I mentioned to you that I do a little dream intrepretation? I LOVE that stuff!)
I get the DISTINCT feeling from your last post, how your H responded, that it IS over with OW, that he IS serious about mending your R. I think you know, deep down, that this is real. OF course being betrayed steals from us that inherent sense of trust, puts up our radar for anything that might signal betrayal or such.
Heck just the other weekend I had a "moment" when H and MY best pal since age 4 were having "too good a time" together at an outing...someone thought THEY were the married couple! It never would have bothered me before as my best pal is just that, MY champion to the end.
I also agree heartily with you that intimate e-pals and the such are NOT a good idea...hell that's how BOTH of my H's A's started!!1
CJ and I now both follow our inner moral compass...the one that sounds when someone is stepping over a boundary. We have some pals that can be very flirtateous, I've been asked to lunch by a flirty colleague...You just HAVE to listen to your soul telling you...this isn't right...this isn't something I could go home and tell my S all about.
So, any other intersting dreams you'd like to share???
P.S. I am now having very violent fantasies about Uber-Ugly Wannabe Indian but Just an Albino Ho again.
Haven't had those for awhile--but I am literally afraid that if I don't vent that anger in some safe way--I really will hurt her.
You have no idea how badly I wish I could hurt her.
Freakin coward!!!! She was brave enough to chase after 3 different Indian men (either married or custom-married like we are). I stuck by a younger friend of mine when she was going through pure hell after finding out about her H cheating with that woman. She even took after her with a baseball bat to her car--broke out every window--chased her and had to be tackled down by several (large) guys. She went to jail for assault, etc. I took a long time for my friend and her H to reconcile. They went through hell--their young child went through hell.
Did uber-ugly give up??? NO--she then went after another friend's huband. The guy was even a cousin to my first friend! They had 4 children and she went after the guy!
When I found out that it was the same fuzzy-haired uber-ugly that my H had just taken up with...
my first reaction was that I couldn't believe she was still walking around with both her kneecaps. She's lucky to still be breathing--much less try it YET again!!
So she can look cool to her New Age Twiklebunny friends--having an Indian guy on her arm. Tryin' to get Native by injection. Women like her are a dime a dozen--coming around to pow-wows or other ceremonies--disrespectfully wearing short little shorts and fluerescent died and beaded turkey feather ear-rings--and t-shirts with dreamy looking Indian maiden surrounded by a zoo full of animals....
they come around drooling after our men...even at ceremonies...
they try to feed our guys "oh you are so wise--big chief--man--bullpucky"...
you could be be a fat old man, blind in one eye missing a leg and there's always some skanky new agey twinkie girl slathering around after you....
and all the guys know--we all teach them from when they are small, never get near one of those kind of girls and if you do, never believe anything they say about birth control..
because the only thing they think is cooler than snagging an Indian guy....is having one of their own real live Native babies.... so they can put them in a cradleboard and carry them around to their hokey "Wild Woman drum classes"
How in the hell am I ever gonna respect H again after taking up with one of those new age twinlebunnys? This is truly humiliating! I'm not just MAD at him...I'm EMBARRASSED for him!
I refuse to use the term "affair" when we talk between us. The word implies some romantic thing and places the emphasis on THIER R. What H did was betrayal, infidelity, dishonesty, and cheating and there nothing romantic about that.
I really like that you made this distinction. Makes a lot of sense to me, I believe I will cut the word "affair" out of my references to my H's infidelty from now on. Words have power even when we are not consciously aware of it.
Since I was a young child, I've had visions and dreams that are uncanny in the way that they unfold into this reality almost seamlessly. I nearly died when I was a little girl because I couldn't eat or rest due to the affect they had on me then.
I still have them but not as often or as intensely as before. My daughter is gifted with the sight, she helped locate a missing child with her ability when she was 10 years old.
Anyway, (I digressed, sorry) I think it's good that you allow yourself to express openly and honestly those strong, bitter and explosive feelings and thoughts that most of us grapple with. We all have our own way of healing and for some of us, having a good rantfest is part of the process.
You are also quite straight forward in your approach to the positive things happening in your situation as well. You don't dress them all up, you just take them out into the sun where you can get a good look at them. I like that.
"And I said that everyone was entitled to their private thoughts and private time, but I need to know that he was absolutely clear that he wasn't entitled to have big hidden, secretive parts of his life where he could betray me and lie to me about."
Positives with parameters. I need to start practicing this myself.
Oh Tal, I can feel the anger in this post, but you have me chuckling too!
Uber-Ugly Wannabe Native Twinklebunnies....What an image!
Now in SOME of our defence...I wear a beaded choker intended for spiritual healing and do have some feather earrings. Heck my nick-name and handle here do have some "native overtones". (In reality shinybear is a variation of the true pronunciation of my two last names).
My best friend is half Native, and our city has a large Native population. However I think I know what you mean by those people who glom onto another culture for nefarious reasons. YUK!!!
The very fact that this skanky white ho has tried to parasite herself to THREE of your men says a WHOLE LOT about her mental health (or lack thereof ). It also should actually relieve you somewhat, clearly she has some weird mojo that initially your guys fall for...Your H was kind of the third victim...(not to take ANY of the responsibility for what he did away from HIM! ).
She sounds like true nutjob (how's that for professional terminology?) a real leach..how could she POSSIBLY be a threat to our Tal???? She ISN'T!
Quote: I refuse to use the term "affair" when we talk between us. The word implies some romantic thing and places the emphasis on THIER R. What H did was betrayal, infidelity, dishonesty, and cheating and there nothing romantic about that.
I'd like to add my complete agreement with this. When I've talked to my W, I've been using the word "affair", but I've always been uneasy with it, not knowing why. Talitsa, you said it exactly right, "affair" does have a connotation of romance, and there's nothing remotely romantic about what my W did to me. As a generic term, "infidelity" is much better.
LOLOL--Shinybear--don't tell me you're a twink!
Hey, we all make a big distinction about this term. It doesn't encompass all white folks, and it doesn't mean that there aren't other people of other races who become trusted members of our communities and sometimes participate in the spiritual aspects of our culture(s).
I've heard some twinks use the excuse that we "all come from Tribal people" so it's ok to rip off, twist and misuse our ways for their own selfish ego-trip". There is a partial truth there, yes, most all of our ancestors did have similar ways. It isn't unusual to find people from other races who have spiritual gifts drawn to our ways.
The difference is that the real people will approach things with respect and humility. Big difference.
...so with that distinction made...
the "twinky factor" does through gas on the fire of my anger at uber-ugly, and yes, I'm extremely angry at her.
Every long-term relationship will have it's up and downs and phases. If there is another person who's whole MO is to sniff around like a shark trying to pick up on the slightest hint of blood...
...let's just say she looks for the weakness available at the time...and tells each man exactly what he wan't to hear and what say or do what every she can that will turn a division between a H and a W into the Grand Canyon.
But hey, she ain't nothing but a serial ho, and can't hold a candle to me...and sure as heck can't make a good batch of fry bread! She's not a threat to me any more. Maybe I'll send her a pair of bright pink, plastic beaded, made-in-Taiwan mocasins for a consolation prize, though!
I agree that "infidelity" is a much better term to use.
1. It places the focus on the primary relationship. 2. It places the responsibility on the partner that cheated. 3. It doesn't add an any connotation that would legitimize or romantisize the other relationship. 4. It places the focus back on "us" and what "we need to heal" instead of on the Other.
Yesterday was a good day. We went on a picnic, rode the ferry, did window shopping, and ended up having dinner outside and listening to live jazz, then turned around to come home. H said it was to celebrate our annaversary, as we hadn't had a proper chance to.
When we got home, we talked for awhile. I asked H why he kept saying he missed me so much, but hadn't come home yet. H said he wanted to make sure we had gotten things worked out and that we could both handle it before he moves back in, but that we'd made so much progress so fast that he didn't think it would be much longer before he reached a comfort level. Said he didn't feel anxious all the time like he did after the bomb, and felt comfortable most of the time.
He asked straight out what had been bothering me and what had "jumped out" at me that led me to call him at work and ask for reassurance.
So, I told him about what had happened with the Instant Message thingy. I had expected him to be disturbed about the whole thing FOR HIMSELF, but he wasn't, he was disturbed for my sake and for how it had made me feel. He apologized whole-heartedly for his actions that lead to me finding that crap at all.
I explained that I wanted him back, but not at any cost, and reminded that we had to negotiate a new relationship on new terms.
I told him the details of what I expect in terms of monogamy and not keeping secrets and taking me seriously when I say something is SERIOUS.
He said he'd been putting a lot of thought and work into those very things with his IC.
Then he talked about the state of mind he'd been in--very deep in an MLC depression--but not really understnding that it was depression--which had caused him to be desperate to find any little thing to make himself feel a little better.
And he had lost sight of how much I meant to him, and all of the things he liked and loved about me. Then he gave me a whole bunch of examples of the things he now remembered that he liked and loved about me.
H also said he'd not be secretive with me in the future and be very careful not to put himself in slippery places because he never wanted to put me, our family, or himself through anything like this ever again.
So, I don't have to list three positives today. It was ALL good.
) voila, there was my nightmare.
It never would have bothered me before as my best pal is just that, MY champion to the end.
