No R Talks??????

[psluke]

I think probably both of those definitions would apply. At least the way I have seen the term used! I don't think Shiny will mind though, especially if some good comes out of it!

I see that done sometimes just felt a little guilty about it but so desperate today for input!

I don't know if H will read your whole thread. He got a lot of it sent to him by me today over Instant Messanger!

Again congratulations you seem to be making great progress!

[shinybear]

Hijack away Ladies!!! We ALL do it from time to time.

It covers pretty much anything other than a direct response to the person whose thread it is.

And so I'll do it now!

Pam, I'm not really sure what happened to the links to my earliest threads, but if you go back to one of the later pages in Piecing, you'll find at least two more threads of mine which have links to some of the earlier ones. I think I'll check that out now and see just how far back I can get!

Shiny

[talitsa]

After a full week of progress, I had a major downer today.

In late January, after confronting H about my intuitions that he was having an A, and him lying about it, I went straight to the computer and looked very closely at evidence of activities that H had been doing. Found hard cold proof that he was lying.

Sunday evening, S24 was messing around on my computer and installed some things. One program he installed was a program that gathers all of the Instant Message/ICQ type programs that you have installed, collects user names and passwords, etc. and puts them all into one program. Today, I wanted to Instant Message someone, so I opened up this mega-program and saw it had collected all of my AOL Instant Messaging info on it. Cool.

Then I saw that some of my sons' MSN Messenger and IRC accounts were collected, but not active (probably need to have a password saved to log in automatically, I figure. OK, I start deleting their messenging programs, because I don't want their wierd little friends somehow trying to message me.

I see one that I don't recognize that is active (password saved?) that has a variation of my H's name. I was a Yahoo message thing that I didn't even know was installed. There's a contact list on it. XOW's name is on the contact list.

That ticked me off, so I started trying to delete the Yahoo Messenger altogether, just as I had done with sons' stuff.
I was NOT HAPPY to see this.

I had a brief moment of wanting to wait until XOW showed to be online and lay into the ho.

But I thought, "no, what would that accomplish...things are going well between H and I so I can afford to let it go and feel (somewhat) secure that it is over between them. I can let it go--as much as I'd like to b**tch slap her (on and off the internet)".

But, when I cliked on the Yahoo thingy to delete it, all of these windows starting popped up all over my screen. Old "offline messages" that she had written to my H (does that mean they were ones he never read?)

Here's a sample:

"I love you, I can't seem to tell you enough".

"Just got out of the shower, thinking of you....;)"

"Are you there? Is she asleep yet?"

"Are you coming over after work in the morning? I'll make it worth the drive


It just went on and on. I would guess there was 20 or so of these lovely little jewels. DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I deleted EVERYTHING, but WHY in the hell did this have to come up in my face? Why now?

I can't cry yet. I feel like I'm going to be sick to my stomach. I feel a lot like I did when I first found out for sure....shivery cold, sortof numb, in shock.

Yes, they were all pre-bomb messages (I told him to get the hell out after bomb) so logically, there wouldn't be any there from after-bomb, right?

I have read about a lot of other people on these boards struggeling with the "snooping" issue. I definatly went on a snooping expidition after confrontation with H, and thought that I had found all there was to be found. I know H's email and password, but don't snoop it. Even if I felt like I wanted to read his stuff, why bother--he knows I could read it if I wanted to and if he were hiding something like that he wouldn't be so dumb as to keep things there, right?

So all of this time, I've been making a conscious decision--no snooping--trust my instincts and H's behaviour.
This thing with the messenger wasn't something I went out looking for--it was something that jumped up in my face and I wasn't prepared for it!

Now, of course....I'm trying to STOP myself from obsessing about what I read and STOP going into paranoia-land about how they are probably still involved and that's why H hasn't come home and...and...and....

[psluke]

Oh gee Talitsa all I can offer tonight is sympathy, not too much thinking for advice. But I know how I feel when something about OW slaps me in the face!!!!!!!! And it ain't pretty!!!

Good luck getting some rest tonight and hope things are more in perspective in the morning!

It really does sound to me that you have a whole lot of positives going your way here in your sitch!!

[Jeannine]

Gads Talitsa, what a smack in the face. I know how sick that would have made me feel.

As you yourself said though, those IM's were most likely pre-bomb messages.

I know that the impact is thunderous all the same.

I can only offer my cyber-shoulder to cry on, that is, when you are able to. I too often am unable to cry for extended periods of time after being kicked in the head. Why is that?

I feel so awful for you, I wish I could say something wise and comforting, but unfortunately, no matter how much we rationalize the logic behind certain events, it still feels like someone ripping out stitches from a fresh wound.

I'll be looking in on you tomorrow.

Easy does it, hope you get some sleep.

Jeannine

[talitsa]

Thanks so much for the support you guys. All I know for sure is I'd better hang tight to this board right now until I can start to get my bearings back (I was feeling like I was starting to). Outside of my Individual C (who is out of town for 2 weeks) this is the only place I feel like I can honestly state how I'm feeling.

Right now, I'm feeling a lot like I did right after bomb...like there's a knife in my heart.

I have found myself thinking stuff like:

...H wasn't just going through MLC the last few years with all the on-line and real life excursions into OWland. Could be he's not capable of doing anything other than sneaking, lying and cheating. I notice that he didn't have much trouble struggling with intimacy issues with his overly-imtimate email friends or his way-more-than-overly intimate coworker. Hell, he was so incapable of honesty, he wasn't just lying to me, he was even telling THEM all kinds of lies about himself (yeah, sure he "just got in from a snowboarding trip"--he'd probably break a hip if he ever even tried doing that again!). Maybe this was more than just an MLC.

...if it has been MLC temporary insanity, maybe it ain't over yet and I can't go through all this all over again!

...what was I THINKING wanting to get married anyway?

Down the spiral into complete negativity if I let it happen.

As I'm writing this, H calls during a break from work. I covered pretty well. He says I sound stressed and asks if I had a rough day at work. I tell him yes, I did have a rough day at work.

"I DO LOVE you", he says.

...and all I could think about was how, supposably, he "loved me" while uber-ugly woman waited for me to go to sleep so they could violate my life in every way. And oh, did he tell HER "I DO LOVE you"?

I feel like I've gone back to square one. CRAP.

[shinybear]

Tal, Tal, Tal...You still out there?

This ain't nothing but a "thang" as my good friend Willwin is fond of saying.

Now don't get me wrong...I know ALL about the knives to the heart that finding such stuff can cause. Anyone who has followed my earlier threads knows that!

My H wrote love letters, wrote a list of things being with OW "ruined" for him forever...as in he could never enjoy them without her (Sunsets, ocean waves, cuddling, sex...ugh!!!). I read about his plans to move across country with her, she even e-mailed me a copy of his plane ticket itinerary! (all of this was stuff she "kindly" sent to me so that I knew what had been going on ).

My H also lied to us both...waited until I was at work to call her, gave her my work schedule, told me he had "business trips", told her I'd caught him packing his bags and threw a fit...never happened...we were in C at the time and I thought we were working things out!!!

Okay I could go on and on, but what's the point? What I really want to tell you is to feel this pain, ride it through, let it roll over you. It's the past. It feels like the present because it just jumped into your face today, but IT IS THE PAST!

Sure, it may set you back some, but don't let it derail you. Things have been going really well for you two. I don't know if you brought this up with your H or ever will.

Every sitch is different and we are all at different points on this journey. If messages from the past jumped out at me at this point, I would likely tell my H what happened...if only to explain why I was hurting so much today. (And yes, it would still hurt, would reopen some nearly healed wounds). I'd reassure him that I'm happy with where things are going, but such reminders are really, really hard to handle.

And also in your sitch, being fairly new, I don't imagine you've yet felt comfortable enough to share with your H the depth of the hurt and agony his actions have caused you. If now is not the right time, hold onto the notion that at some point he WILL hear your pain.

It took several months for me to open the floodgates (in our second C session, after CJ had said his goal was to work on our M). It was only then, and after reading some of SAD's threads that the enormity of what he had done hit him. Until then there was a lot of denial, blame shifting and rationalization. He spent the better part of two days withdrawn and silent. I feared I'd pushed him too far...but he just felt so BAD for what he'd done...and things slowly improved from there.

Deep breaths, Tal. It's old news. Today sucks, tomorrow will be better. Trust me...been there, and back!

Shiny

[sage]

Talista -- I'm so sorry my friend that those crappy words leapt out at you. Maybe it was the universe wiping the slate clean? Getting it all out there so you can move on?

I can relate to your fears re. h -- the issues re. honesty and/or the continued presence of an MLC. When you can, bring out the positive thoughts -- notice what h. is doing differently, what you are. Yah, you're gonna take small steps backwards at times but I don't think you'll ever revisit square 1 again. Either of you.

I like Shiny's idea of letting it all wash over you -- what you resist, persists, they say.

I hope today feels sunnier.

Sage

[talitsa]

Shiny and Sage--thank you my friends for all of your words. My C has often commented that she thinks that I process things very quickly, but it's very intense while I'm doing that processing. I'm trying to keep that in mind right now as it hurts like hell, but I do know it will pass.

Yes, Shiny, I've read in your current thread about all of the things you found and were sent so I know you know exactly what this feels like. You've also talked about going along in MC after-bomb and thinking you were working on your M--and all the while it was still going on. In your H's case, there was some real blackmail by OW, so that factors in big time.

I feel like in that poem Sage posted--about being a bud and opening to risk again. I'ts so hard to do, but I've been trying so hard to bloom--open up and risk trusting. Now I've got a terrible case of the "what if's" because I have read your story and many other stories here where bomb hit/A ended/working on M/turns out A wasn't ended after all.

Yes, early on, H & I would meet for coffee or drive around--lot's of very painful discussions and I did tell him the depth of the pain and agony his betrayal had caused. I told him that everything important to me had been violated: my R, my home, my family, everything. I told him how it had affected my feelings about myself as a woman, as even just a person who was capable of being loved.

Now these messages jumping out at me--makes me remember the horrible sense of humiliation that I'd been walking around thinking I knew what my life was, but there was this undercurrent of secrecy and betrayal that sucked my whole life up into the undertow in one instant...I know most of you know these feelings and exactly what I'm talking about.

All these body of water metaphores, LOL!

I will have to think about if I will talk to H about this and how.

[Jeannine]

Tal,

I tried to write to you this morning but my browser crashed just before I could post it.

I really have to agree with Shiney and Sage on this one. Those cruel messages were from the long ago past. I know the sting is just as painful though.

"I have read your story and many other stories here where bomb hit/A ended/working on M/turns out A wasn't ended after all."

That is part of my story too. I can relate.

I don't know if you've read my thread, but I've been on an anger binge ever since I opened our last batch of phone bills. It confirmed that my H had broken a recent promise he voluntarily, and seemingly sincerely, made to me. He broke it over and over and over. I felt myself implode.

I can understand how that would drag you back into that desperate, lonely place we've all experienced following the bomb.

I can only suggest that you bring those wretched feelings to us, let that sickening energy flow out of you here.

You've come such a long way and made so much progress with your situation, even if it doesn't feel like that right now. It would be a shame to backstep over those nasty warts from the past.

Jeannine