For the guys with kids and a WAW

[hopeful4her]

WW suckered me into a another talk, last night. Things were going well, then S14 biological father called to explain that S14 was to stand in a quincanera (thats like a debut, for mexicanos. She was upset that he talked to me, only. Like we are leaving her out. I had to become the go between along time ago, because they fight everytime they talk. I accepted this, and reminded her that it was her decision to put me in that position. We then talked about S14 deciding to leave to live w/his father come summertime. Somehow the talk turned to us.
She asked what I was planning on doing. I told her I don't really want to talk about this stuff, but she said that we were going to have to at some point. She asked if I was going to fight for the girls. I told her my plan was to try to work on my marriage and fight to keep the family intact. She said that wasn't going to happen. I told her that if she is going to continue to be with someone else, I have told her my plans to protect myself. I tell her that I cannot control her, never have. I talk about the changes that I have made for myself. The kind of person I want to be for myself and my kids. God works on me everyday. I explain the stuff that I have learned about. Being addicted to him. He is not better, just different. Its easy with him, because there is no stress involved. Just the good stuff. Addiction to the initial stage of love, but it doesn't last, never does. How there is no chance at all because of him. Zero. If he's not in the picture, our chances would go to a least 50/50. She says what if it is better with him.I say what if it isn't. What price are you willing to pay to find out you were wrong. I told her I missed her being my best friend. The talks, the just being comfortable together. I told her I loved her to death. She told me she knew that I had stopped my check. I said if you want to. I told how she had told me once that she was going to get her ducks in a row, and that I was only doing the same.
She told how it didn't seem like I wanted it to work how I act sometimes. How I act. What did she expect? I told her, yes, I get in crazy moods because of her, but not anymore. I control my feelings and emotions, not her. I will no longer let her control how I feel. I have to protect my heart, but make no mistake. I want us to work on our family, our relationship and get counseling. I tell her that I see the struggle within her. How she fights inside herself. I let her know that sometimes I just want to give her a hug and tell her that everything is going to be ok. She is just taking it all in. She says that I have made all these changes that she prayed for years would happen. All the years that I didn't give my full attention to the kids. I accept the part I played or didn't play in their lives. But that is not who I am anymore. She starts to blame me for S14 leaving. If I was more of a man to teach him. She is just thinking of the sports stuff that his dad does with him. I tell her that he is leaving because of what we are doing. Because of how he sees us as hipocrits in our faith. She says that he will miss what he has, and I agree. She should hear herself talk.
After some silence, she says that I won't forgive her, so why even try. I tell her I forgive her. She gives a look with tears stream down. I tell her to look at me and I repeat that I do forgive her. I have learned to do that. Tears are now coming from me. I tell her that forgiveness is a full circle. For forgiveness to be complete, one has to forgive, but the other has to want to be forgiven.
Phone rings, and breaks the mood. We go for a smoke and talk a bit about D6 and talk all of our kids. How great they are. I mean great. I tell her that the kids are the closest thing to God on earth. She agrees and we go to bed and say goodnight to each other.

[hopeful4her]

Question. I am not trying to initiate any R talks. Do I respond to WW if she initiates? I was thinking no, but then I always respond to her. Most times it just ends up going back and forth. I tell her to just leave. She says she's not leaving without the kids. I don't love you anymore. Yes you do, you just try to convince yourself. Blah, blah. But lately, they seem to be sinking in. Me holding my ground and telling her the consequences. She tells me that I am threatening or trying to scare her. I calmly tell her that I'm doing nothing more than telling her the facts.
Are these conversations good or am I just fooling myself?

[lodo]

Hey hopeful,

I know what you mean - I do the same thing. You have to realize that you are threatening her in a way - you're challenging her outlook and that creates tension. Somewhere I read that you should think of it like kung fu - accept their energy and redirect it. Agree with her (except about the kids) so that she has nothing to argue with, but see if you can change the logic in some way. It's hard to do - not sure if I've been able to do it yet. Which is why just avoiding R talks altogether is the better option. If she asks you a question, answer as civilly as possible and then change the subject to neutral ground.

lodo

[LL44]

I am not trying to initiate any R talks. Do I respond to WW if she initiates?

H will initiate R talk with me, which basically means he lists everything I have done wrong. I listen, say "I am sorry you see it that way", etc, but I don't argue anymore. If it gets to hard to listen to, I change the subject.

She will constantly argue the points you bring up.

Don't walk away immediately if she starts a talk. See where it goes, then start the neutral remarks......

[hopeful4her]

Thanks, guys. When we do talk, I end up doing most of the talking and she just kind of takes it in.
Got out of work late, today. WW called me during work to ask if I still wanted tickets to a night parade coming up on Saturday. I said I did and if she was going to join us. She said she had to work on Sat but will see. Later at home, WW had picked up some fried chicken and gone to the grocery store. I got a haircut and I knew she had gotten her nails done from when I called her, earlier. Normal night, spent in my room basketball. I got to drink a couple of beers and watch my Spurs beat the Suns. YEAH! Seems like it has been a while since I got a night to do what I want. WW is in the living room watching a movie by herself. An ok night. I am going to go and join her, then time for bed.

[hopeful4her]

I love sleeping with WW next to me, again. I have told her before that I just can't sleep right without us somehow touching. Doesn't matter what it is. Elbows, shoulders, knees, foot. I hate that I need this, but I'll take what I can. The funny thing is, I still can't sleep, because I wake up in the middle of the night to enjoy the touch. I am crazy.
Sometimes in the middle of the night, she'll stretch out and she'll lay her hand on my face. It has happened a few times. Once, she was feeling my face in her sleep. I mean really feeling it. Another time she was doing it again, and then she stuck her finger in my nose! She used to do this to me in the car while I drove. Her funny little sign of affection. I know it sounds gross. Not like she was digging, but it is strange the things you miss.

Trying to figure out if I should go back to giving her a kiss on the cheek and a hug when I leave in the morning. I really want to, but I also want to make sure that I keep my boundaries. Also, the kids are going to spend the night at grandma and grandpa's on Thursday night. I'm debating doing something that night and wanting to invite WW out with me. It is Fiesta time in San Antonio and lots of things to do. I desperatly want to try to reconnect with her. Haven't been doing any snooping. Just been trying to enjoy the time that we spend together. Clear headed. Snooping kills me.

In my mind, I tell myself that she is still seeing and contacting OM. I have believed that this has been an EA, but the arguement that we had back on the 11th(I think), I said to her, "You cheated on me!" to which she replied, "Yes, I did." I took that to mean that she has slept with him, but not to clear. I hope and pray she hasn't, but I'll expect the worst. I hope and pray that it is still an EA.

Advice for me on the hugs and kiss?

[hopeful4her]

Called WW at work to ask if she had gotten a graphing calculator for S14. I was told that she was already gone for the day. Mind was racing. I hate that. Wasn't sure if I should call her cell. I had found an index card last week in her car with the name of a lady, a phone number, April 24, 4:00, and a street name. I thought that it might be the name of an attorney. Never found out. I know she went to a meeting for work on that day, and she brought home some things from the meeting. Normally, her meetings will last past 5:00. I figured, if it was an appointmen, she didn't make it. I called her cell and got no answer. I'm thinking again. Too much. She called back and told me she was on her way to a benefits meeting for work. Felt better. Told her I would go to Wallymart and then home.
On my way home, WW called again to tell me she was out of meeting and would go to video store before going home.
I got home and went for a walk with my kids. WW came home while we were on our way back. I had bought some car mats for her car.
Tried watching a movie in bed but we both started to fall asleep.
No pursuing, just acts of kindness.

If it sounds like my posts seem boring and normal, that is kind of my point. Aside from no intimacy and her talking to OM, we seem so normal. I know it has to be me. Am I in denial? We take everything day by day. Maybe a shift towards R? Our last R conversation starting to make sense to her? I wish I knew.

At least I still have her and my kids at home.

[hopeful4her]

Correction, the card said April 22.

[fightingirish]

I wouldn't push too much unless it looks like she would be receptive.

Isn't it bazzar how they can lead two lives??

take care.

[hopeful4her]

Tal, thanks for stopping by.

It clearly boggles the mind.

I have tried the pursuit and had it completely back fire on me. Maybe that's why it is such a no no. Nope, just more acts of kindness, try to be friends again, and having her realize what a great dad I really am. No pushing from me. No snooping. I went dark for a while, and while it had her guessing, it did not help our R, I feel.