slip sliding away

[tmi]

Hello, all. My last post was a couple of months ago. Life has been so busy, and so much of the busy-ness required computer time, that getting on the DB boards just didn't fit in.

I have spent a bit of time checking up on a few threads and hope to be able to get to some more in the next little while, but time continues to be an issue - I try so hard to slow things down, but it seems to be a losing battle.

Short version: over the past several years, I have known about EA and (eventually) about one PA. Very strong link to internet porn/dating sites, etc. Last September, I got the ILYBINILWY speech, with my H planning to move out in January, found a place to live - it looked pretty certain. He also told me that there were WAY more affairs than I knew about, PAs and EAs.

From October on, I was DBing my ass off. At one point, my H said it seemed that I was ready to move on and didn't need him anymore - this was the thing that pulled him back, for those of you that are worried about sending that message. Anyway, the morning of the day we were going to tell the kids that dad was moving out in a week or so, he was really upset and confused, not sure what he wanted to do. I suggested that he pay his rent at the new place for January and stay here, to see how things would go. That's what he did, and the February rent on the new place didn't get paid.

I asked him a couple of weeks ago if he was still thinking about leaving, and he said no, that things were feeling better. He hasn't said that he loves me, but does act quite loving at times. We are doing some back yard renos, and he seems interested, talks about plans for the summer, etc. - the goals I set in early DBing are pretty much met, so I should be thrilled, right?

Except I'm not, to the surprise of no one who has been down this road. The enormity of what he did, the years of endless lies are harder and harder to ignore - I didn't give it too much thought while in crisis mode, but I'm finding the pain is getting more intense and harder to set aside. And even though things between us are pretty good on the surface, I don't think I can do this much longer.

Because I've been feeling so distressed, I've asked my H for some time to talk on Friday, even though I have no idea what I'm going to say. As usual, spending some time on the DB boards has provided me with some constructive ideas for that conversation, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

[Concerned_Listener]

Imt,
I think it is a good idea to let your H know where you're at in terms of commitment to the M. He deserves a chance to make adjustments on his end.

I'm not sure what expectations you have for the conversation, or what it is you need from your H.

As far as your pain, what emotions are you experiencing? Do you have a healthy outlet for expressing and processing them? Do you talk to friends, a therapist, write in a journal?

Writing to us is helpful too.

CL

[limbo]

Imt,

You sound very much like me, my h had an affair with someone he worked with, this probably went on for sometime, he continued to stay and say it was over, he also was in a very deep depression, threatened suicide. There was something mentioned about marriage to other women the whole 9 yards!
H seemed to come back and was gung ho on making the marriage work, I thought we were, went away on a family vacation, and the day after we come back he tells me he has been with ow again, and is going to leave.
He didn't and we head off to retrouvaille to work on communication, this seemed to be a turning point, and I thought we were on our way, next thing he has been in contact with a girl that he knew in his teens, she live far away so they communicate by email, and I find one, where he tells her she is his soulmate, and if she asked he would be on the next plane.
Again he stays, and we continue to work on things.
He is know very loving, and seems to be with me totally.
Now I am the one with the problems, the pain, the hurt, just doesn't want to go away, the mental pictures just keep coming.
So I know where you are coming from, its so very. There have been a couple of times where I have been very close to calling it quits, but so far haven't.
I have made an appoint to see a C, I need someone to help me work through this, because I don't think I can do it on my own.
So maybe that should be something to think about, talk to someone who can give you some direction, some guidance, and someone who you can get it all out too.
Sorry I couldn't be more help!

[JoieDeVivre]

The enormity of what he did, the years of endless lies are harder and harder to ignore - I didn't give it too much thought while in crisis mode, but I'm finding the pain is getting more intense and harder to set aside. And even though things between us are pretty good on the surface, I don't think I can do this much longer.

IMT,
You're not the only one with "second thoughts." This has been talked about fairly recently here in piecing, and I can relate. At times I feel those feelings of doubt coming on strong. Sometimes the hurt wants to raise it's ugly head and haunt me. But usually a day or two goes by and I'm better again. Having a H who is truly piecing with me helps.

It takes time to heal, reconcile and move on. Don't expect it to happen in a few weeks. You never forget but you can forgive IF that's what you want. You've come this far, give yourself some time to rebuild. I try to remember that the past is over and done with. You can't change it. But today and tomorrow is are brand new days.

Have you tried counseling? Also, a weekend doing Retrouvaille may help you, too. A few here have completed that program and speak wonders of it.

Have you given any additional thought to what you're going to say to him?

Joie

[tmi]

Thanks all for stopping by In answer to questions: I don't journal, have tried Cing but haven't found anyone who understands DBing - so far, they are all into 'moving on' (reading and reflecting helps me the most), I walk for 30 minutes every morning, a lifesaver, and now that spring is finally here, I get to play in the dirt!

The 48-hour rule is a wonderful thing - I would have done lots of ranting and raving over the past several months if I didn't make myself wait for a couple of days. Having managed to get through the past two days without crying, etc., (at least in front of my H), I have decided to just ask him if he would be willing to complete the quiz in the Five Love Languages, so I can get a better idea of what's important to him going forward. I'm hoping he'll also ask to see my responses, but I won't offer.

One of the reasons I've not been on the board for a couple of months is the difficulty I have getting off once I'm here, but since I don't want my children to starve today, I'd better go start the process of getting them ready for school. Hope to check in with everyone later.

[DiDi]

imt,

Welcome back. I should be doing a million things other than reading here also. I still have lessons to learn I suppose and I have to believe they are as important as cleaning the bird cage.

Piecing is soooo hard. We worked soooo very hard to attain the goal of saving a marriage, it's a natural let down when we start to breathe again.

I think it's a time to make really sure that we don't slip back into the old patterns we changed and end up with the same marriage that went wrong. I remember an exchange with H that included my tearful exclamation that I didn't go through all this to end up where we were.

I also bought the Five Love Languages book. We haven't really started reading it together yet, but my buying it and talking with him about reading it together sent him the message that "Just because we are together again, the work is not done." We have WORK to do to heal and make this a better marriage than we had.

It is also a time to make new goals. We still need to stay detached. I mean that in the sense that we still, for the rest of our lives, need to rely on ourselves to find our happiness.

They hurt us. But. We TOLD them we wanted to work it out. We owe it to our family to give it time (yay! good on the 48 hour rule!)and our best effort.

They do not suddenly owe us more to make up for the pain. There is nothing they can do that will do that anyhow.

It is hell getting the trust back. You will doubt him. You will doubt yourself. You will roll your eyes and mutter "be careful what you wish for".

You sound good. You are looking at the coming of spring and playing in the dirt and the things that'll make you happy. You have your sense of humor. I can read it in your post this morning. Hang on to this, Ingrid, and don't give up for a little while. Don't stop DB-ing. Be the woman he'd be insane to lose and know you always have that choice. You have the upper hand. You don't NEED him. You want and deserve a healthy marriage with a faithful spouse. You showed him that. Don't forget that or lose your posture.

Vent to us. We have been there and understand. I promise YOU will get to a better place.

[limbo]

Were abouts in Canada are you?

[tmi]

Thank you, Deuxlie (what does your name mean?)for taking the time to write that out. It was helpful and I wish I had read it last Thursday.

I'm in BC, limbo, where we had snow! this weekend - but that seems to be over now.

This is going to be a long email, because I have several days worth of venting to do.

So, Friday morning I asked him to take the quiz, which he did, confirming that physical touch is most important to him, but other things are too. He asked to see mine, which I couldn't find at that moment, so I told him that quality time came up the highest on mine. He had two reactions to this - that we were really different and that he couldn't give me any quality time because his emotions are all over the place - he 'doesn't love me'. All I accomplished was to bring this up again, a real set back since I think he may have been starting to forget (occasionally) that he doesn't have the feelings he thinks he should have. I did not handle this terribly well - spent some time crying alone in our bedroom and when I pulled myself together enough to come out, started crying again as soon as my H tried to hug me. I don't really remember what was said before he left for work, but I know that I told him that I'd rather have the painful truth than be lied to.

After he left, I sent him an email letting him know that my employer has switched providers of their employee assistance program and giving him the contact info, which may not have been the best excuse but it was what I could think of to say that I didn't expect them to help him figure out that he had a fantastic woman, that I thought he'd come to that conclusion on his own - trying to be upbeat, ya know. No response.

After work, H headed over to a baseball meeting (he's quite involved with S's team)and didn't get home until close to 9 p.m. I knew he was going to the meeting, but expected him around 6 or 7. I've been really good about just letting him come and go without comment, but after the stressful start to the day, I unfortunately blew it and angrily said that I would have appreciated a phone call. He avoided me for the rest of the evening.

I was pretty busy Saturday, but was friendly and courteous whenever we ran into each other and by the end of the day he seemed a bit more relaxed. Saturday night he had plans with a friend. He knows how much it upsets me when he has time and energy for everyone but me - it's been an issue for years - I guess that's what I can expect from someone who doesn't actually want to be with me. I pasted a smile on my face when he left and told him to have a good time, didn't give him a hard time at all the next day about the fact that he got home really late (or early, depending how you look at it).

I knew where he was going, but didn't know that it was going to be a lot of people. I asked if it was just him and the other two people he had mentioned as being there - he seemed to answer easily enough that there were quite a few people there he didn't know, but asking was probably a mistake.

Later in the morning I found a business card in his pocket (woman) and spend several hours trying to decide what to say, if anything. He probably noticed that I was distant (but still courteous) and likely thought that I was pissed off about his going out the night before - that was the pattern before, I'd get mad and stop talking to him.

I decided that I would ask him - told him that I had found it that I 'hoped' he'd tell me about it. I tried to stay low key, but started crying almost as soon as I started talking. He said it was nothing, just a conversation - I asked how she was, what she looked like - hating myself every time I opened my mouth. I could see him shrinking back into himself, but I couldn't stop myself. To top things off, I said that I didn't know what we were doing, whether we were just living in the same house or working on things, and that while I could live with that for now, I'd appreciate it if he didn't sleep with anyone else or do any internet stuff while he was living in this house and that if decided he was going to do that, he needed to tell me. Crying the whole time, of course. I APOLOGIZED for needing to ask, saying that I thought I know how it feel from his point of view, having to answer these kinds of questions - I APOLOGIZED!!! to the man who has been lying to me and cheating on me for years, the reason I had to go through the humiliation of blood tests, etc., to make sure that I didn't have infections I didn't know about. I can't express how angry it makes me that I am in this position, so scared that he will leave that I'm behaving like this spineless doormat. I have tears streaming down my face as I type this and it's all I can do not to pick up the computer and throw against the wall. I have a great deal of work to do, but perhaps I'll take the dog for a walk instead or have a shower or something - I haven't felt like this for ages! Yesterday I had to take a tranquillizer, something I haven't had to do since I started the ADs. May be time to have those bumped up again, god forbid some feelings should leak out and make my H uncomfortable!

As a result of the last few days, we are several steps back. I've been feeling almost as wretched as when I first heard that he no longer loved me, with a lot of fear that he is thinking about leaving again. I've been thinking on and off all morning about sending an email, trying to express the fact that I don't want to be that angry, suspicious woman he's been living with for years (not that I didn't have reason to be) but I can't find the right words.

I guess I made the mistake of thinking that because he hadn't moved out, I could start to relax a little and actually share a little bit of what's going on inside, but he's obviously not ready for that. I just hope that I haven't screwed it up too badly and that I can find the strength to DB effectively yet again.

[tmi]

Could I say something like:

"I'm feeling discouraged, because I had hoped that we would be able to work together to build a relationship in which we could both be ourselves, feel accepted and valued. I'm confused about how we can get there without some sharing of feelings. I'd really like to hear what's been working for you and what some of your goals are, even if you think I'm not going to like them."

If I can say this without crying (not likely) and end with a smile, we may be able to have some sort of conversation. Maybe spending more time on this board will help and I should just try that for a few days before taking any more relationship action. I am wondering, though, what the point of this is if this is how it's going to be.

[DiDi]

Hi IMT-- I hope it's thawed out up there by now. I won't mention the temps here <grin>. I live in SE LA. Deuxlie is a "pet name" that my H calls me for some reason that he doesn't even know. He usually calls me Doolie Daw'lin actually. I changed the spelling, then spelled it wrong, lol. Changed my original name on here because I didn't want my details so readily accessable to certain nosy people and plus I HATED my original name on this site. It was a HUGE downer, to say the least. I was an absolute mess when I found this site.

Try to be easy on yourself hon, you've been through so very much and the decision to try to piece it all together again is frightening for both of you. Men and women tend to express fear in different ways though....

I also do not think you'll get half that paragraph out before his eyes glaze over. Kinda like my long, long posts! Hee. In the state of mind he's in, I don't think your husband could process all of that and give you the answers you wish for.

Maybe we can figure out a way to find the answers you seek without making it a "TALK" and putting him on the defense. That just reinforces his fears and those "icky" feelings inside of him associated with the mess he has created.

It's only been a few weeks since he has said he's no longer leaving. You made some great observations in your rant when you noted the things you tried that did not work. No more cheeseless tunnels. K?

You wonder what the point is if "this is how it's going to be." That reminds me of me when I used to blast some song that said "If this is how it's gonna be, I quit..." Guess he believed me for a while there.

I can tell you almost certainly that this is NOT how it's going to be. When we feel stuck in an unhappy relationship, we are truly keeping ourselves exactly where we do not want to be. Relationships aren't a thing, a noun; relationships are verbs. They are moving, something we do, not have.

The word "Love" in the Love Languages book may have just spooked him because on some level he just isn't ready to give up what he perceives some part of himself that he is guarding. I read that he isn't trusting you yet. That's okay. This will change and so will the dynamics that are driving you crazy and hurting you so badly right now as long as you can be patient and not push him back out to the guy that is looking for something else. NOTE: I am NOT blaming you for his actions. They suck. We can't do anything about what THEY do though. You're here. We can make this better, one way or the other.

It sounds like it works for you when you spend time together. Do you go to those baseball games with them? Can you get involved with the team in some fundraising/treat bringing capacity? While getting my own life, I made "quality time" for H by just doing the things he liked. He loves to fish and camp... instead of doing the hotel/city gig that I (sortakinda) prefer, I started looking into camping again. Bought him books on birds and binoculars and went on birdwatching walks/drives.

Can you table the BIG TALKS and take some more baby steps toward comfort, friendship, little things, SHOW him a NOT angry, NOT suspicious woman and wait for the chances to listen to what he's saying? Putting them on the spot never seems to work. You didn't get "the painful truth", trust me. You got his panic response but love is an action too! So there.

I know you've been betrayed. I can't promise it won't happen again. But back when you married... well, I guess we didn't know it but no one could promise us that back then either. No one can guarantee someone else won't do the same thing to you if you move on either.

Chances are though, if you don't do your best to sort this out, that you're likely to choose more of the same. IF, IF IF it should happen again, you have another choice to make. Just like we always have.

Keep talking this out with us... (((hugs IMT)))
Kel