i'm clueless....

[Tomato]

Hi Ann

So glad you made the talk happen. Great job. I am proud of you.

Christ provides it all.

[ann25]

Hi Dom... for me, they both fit into both categories... not that I can't see what you are saying, but consider this...

I shouldn't have to tell him to spend time with me, because that's just part of deciding to get married and have a family and he should be doing it because he wants to.

It's not my responsibility to tell him to spend time with me, but if I want my M to be healthy and survive, i should.

I shouldn't have to tell him to tell him to take his medicine because that's just what you do when you are sick and he should be doing it because he wants to get better.

It's not my responsibility to tell him to take his medicine, but if I want him to get better and be healthy enough to function, I should.

To me, things that effect him, directly effect me. It doesn't matter if it's something like taking medicine or spending family time or going to MC or whatever. If i want things to happen, i HAVE to take responsibility for them, no matter how big or small.

Maybe I'm waaay off base, but to me, I technically don't have to be responsible for the things he chooses to and not to do; take medicine, see a dr, treat his daughters and wife better, but it's in my best interest to take responsiblity when he chooses not to. I was talking with some friends last night and i told them that i had to fold laundry when i got home. They said why don't you just leave it and see if he'll do it. I told them that I tried, i even asked for help, but it has to get done. Should it be my responsibility to have to take care of everything? NO. Should i have to? NO. Will I? yes, because someone has to. I feel that way about most of my M.

I guess I'm just frustrated with everything. I feel like this is too much work and I'm not getting anything out of it. Luckily, i'm patient and I know that things can get better. I just have to have faith and hope... thankfully, i do.

Tomato - Thanks for the support & encouragement!! I appreciate it.

[Dom R]

Hi Dom... for me, they both fit into both categories...

you're right. So, maybe some clarification from me is in order.

The following statements/attitude from you, is sometimes pinpointed as a "problem" within marriage, by MCs:

To me, things that effect him, directly effect me. It doesn't matter if it's something like taking medicine or spending family time or going to MC or whatever. If i want things to happen, i HAVE to take responsibility for them, no matter how big or small.

Yes, all those things DO affect you.
As I said previously, some of them are not your responsability.
However, let me put it another, stronger way:

For some of those things;
Not only are they not your responsibility: They are not your choice to make!

In that context.. you might ask him to make a difference choice than the one he is making now.. however, you do not have a right to expect that he change. It is His Choice, not yours.

In that context, not only is "dropping the rope" in those areas healthier for you... but it is more respectful to him, in that it recognizes it is his choice to make.

Contrariwise, it is disrespectful, if you try to force him to do things your way, in an area that is his choice to make.

Big areas in this category:

• Him spending more time with your children
• Him looking after his body, taking medication, going to doctor, etc

Yes, it is painful when our spouse choses paths for themselves that we would rather they not follow. But we still need to accept their choices about themselves. If he ASKS you for help with medication, etc. that is one thing. But taking that on yourself, unilaterally, is very different.

Recognizing his right to choose things for himself, is a hugely important thing, mentioned in many different marriage counselling philosophies, in different ways.

One being, "you can only control yourself".

BTW: as far as less critical, potentially "joint" stuff, like laundry:
Weeell... there's various strategies about that, that you havent tried. I'll leave some tips that I've read about on that, for another time though

[ann25]

I see what you are saying. I know that they are not my choice to make. I suggest he spend time witht the girls and take medicine, most times he chooses not to listen anyways. How is that any different than him spending time with me? I can't force him to. I can ask him to, but ultimately he gets to decide what he wants to do.

I guess i'm just confused. I don't really see what i can do right now other than wait for him to do something. I can continue to go to my C (who is a MC normally and started seeing me for my M) and hope we wants to come one day. Should I say nothing when i see how he treats my girls or should i stand up for them like I do for myself. I'm all they've got. Do i stop caring when he's sick and not remind him to take his medicine?

I don't want to be disrespectful towards him. Things i say here may come across differntly than i say them with him because he doesn't hear everything that i'm thinking. What things do I take responsibility for and what things do i just drop. quite honestly, i don't expect him to do anything. I would like him to and I make ask him to, but I don't anticipate him actually doing anything.

In 4 weeks, i'm going to be bringing another little girl into this mess that i call my life. How long to i continue to let him choose to distance himself from us and just not care about anything before i have to look out for my girls? I can handle the crap he dishes out, but i can't handle him doing it to them...

right now, i feel like i don't even care what happens... i kinda feel like i've wasted the last 6 months trying to fix something that no one else cares about. i can't make him care and sadly, i don't expect him too... then again, maybe i'm just having a bad day. i dunno

[Dom R]

I see what you are saying. I know that they are not my choice to make. I suggest he spend time witht the girls and take medicine, most times he chooses not to listen anyways. How is that any different than him spending time with me?

Because the relationship with a spouse, is different from the relationship with a child, last I checked

sidebar: truth be told... some men simply do not like being around children.
Do NOT try to change that, if it is the case. Just accept it. Try to make the time he does spend with them, as pleasant as you can. But dont push him to do more with them than he is happy to do.


PLUS, there's a big difference between complaining, "I want you to treat someone else differently", and "I want you to treat ME better".

I can't force him to. I can ask him to, but ultimately he gets to decide what he wants to do.

And here's the other difference.
You dont have the power or right to alter the dynamic of his relationship with his daughter. That is between him, and her.
However, you DO have the power, AND right, to alter the dynamic of his relationship with YOU.
Because YOU, control YOU.

It's like you said in your post about your confrontation with him:

Like i told him. I'm willing to stick around and try and do my best, but i won't deal with the pain and hurt that i went through before. That if it comes to that, he won't need to tell me he wants a D this time, because I will leave.

more food for thought...

i can't make him care and sadly, i don't expect him too... then again, maybe i'm just having a bad day. i dunno

oh, but you are mistaken there.
You are blessed beyond many people here, in that YOUR spouse, DOES care.
He's just being stinking lazy about showing it.

And the thing is... you are allowing him to be that way.

Dont allow him to be that way any more.

I think you're halfway to getting him to come around the "easy" way; with words alone.
RIght now, you've woken him up, to where he is actually listening seriously to your words.
Tomorrow/today, ask him what his plan is to make things better in your marriage.

When he doesnt have anything, then start telling him what you want and need from him.
More time from him together, more help... Dont get carried away with a grand wishlist of everything you could possibly want as a "princess".. just what any reasonable woman would EXPECT FROM A HUSBAND. (like I said... more time, and more help. may I suggest a specific amount of positive time together, and a specific amount of help, though. Men dont deal well with being told "more". they need specifics.)

He'll complain, he'll whine....

Remind him of his claim that you are [waht did he say? best wife? most important woman... whatever it was...] Then challenge him to put his money where is mouth is, so to speak.

Then if he refuses to come through and treat you like the most important person in his life....
shut him out.
dont cook him dinner. dont wash his clothes. You might even go as far as not even speaking to him.
DEFINATELY no sex with him.


I dont think this sort of approach is appropriate for everyone.

But in YOUR CASE, where you MUST get results, and commitment out of your husband, in the next week or two... (and we know that he does actually care about you)... I think that you may have to go to that level.

Good luck. From the limited amount I know of your situation... I think this has a great chance of working for you, Ann.

[ann25]

Don't have much time to read and respond, i'll do that later. Just wanted to post that yesterday was a better day than we've had in a while. We spent some time together during the day because i was at home all day yesterday. I have been soo tired lately and this was the first time in months that he hasn't made me feel bad or guilty about going to sleep early (11PM) and didn't wake me up for some silly task while he was still up. It's probably not really a big deal, but i needed the sleep and was able to get it without any drama... it was a nice change. hopefully there will be more nice days in the future.

[Dom R]

That's great news, Ann

Maybe he'll positively respond to the softer approach, rather than the tougher way.

Please remember that you have almost no time left to TRY it, though. So keep trying something...

[blindsided1]

I'm glad to see the positives in your sitch. What is your due date? You must be coming upon it soon, here.

[ann25]

Hi - so last night was rough for me. After work, I had a Dr. appt in the afternoon, then went grocery shopping, picked up the girls, went home, cooked dinner, cleaned some, got the girls ready for bed... did all the mommy stuff i do. I was hurting really bad. I just needed to sit down and relax. He kept asking me for things. I told him i needed to rest, but when i got up, i would get whatever... eventually, he'd tell me not to bother and just do it. He was mad about little things all night. Then he went and got in the shower. he was acting differently all night and then got mad when at 1AM i wasn't up for sex. I told him we can't wait until i'm falling asleep every night, that it's too hard on me. He got mad... it's fine for him cause he sleeps til 10AM, but I'm up at 6:30 and out the door after getting the girls up, dressed, and fed. I guess he was just in a bad mood and I don't understand why and he wouldn't tell me. I hope i start feeling better...

Dom -

sidebar: truth be told... some men simply do not like being around children.
Do NOT try to change that, if it is the case. Just accept it. Try to make the time he does spend with them, as pleasant as you can. But dont push him to do more with them than he is happy to do.
PLUS, there's a big difference between complaining, "I want you to treat someone else differently", and "I want you to treat ME better"....You dont have the power or right to alter the dynamic of his relationship with his daughter. That is between him, and her. However, you DO have the power, AND right, to alter the dynamic of his relationship with YOU.
Because YOU, control YOU.

He likes kids. He will even spend time with them when he happens to be in a good mood and there is no actual responsibility involved. My issue is not as much his time, but how he treats them. I know you say i can't control how he treats them, but only how he treats me, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it. Don't get me wrong, i'll give time outs and spankings and whatever is needed if they deserve it, but there is no consistancy with him. something he laughs at today will get them yelled at tomorrow. As much as i can't control how he treats them, i feel like it is something that i really need to address, because it is the one thing that makes me seriously want to leave him. I'm responsible for helping shape them into the people that they become and I don't want them having some warped view on how they should be treated by a man. I won't push him, but hopefully he pulls his head out of his a$$ on this because i also won't accept it and just live with it.

oh, but you are mistaken there. You are blessed beyond many people here, in that YOUR spouse, DOES care. He's just being stinking lazy about showing it. And the thing is... you are allowing him to be that way.

I think you're halfway to getting him to come around the "easy" way; with words alone.
RIght now, you've woken him up, to where he is actually listening seriously to your words.
Tomorrow/today, ask him what his plan is to make things better in your marriage.

When he doesnt have anything, then start telling him what you want and need from him.
More time from him together, more help... Dont get carried away with a grand wishlist of everything you could possibly want as a "princess".. just what any reasonable woman would EXPECT FROM A HUSBAND. (like I said... more time, and more help. may I suggest a specific amount of positive time together, and a specific amount of help, though. Men dont deal well with being told "more". they need specifics.)

Half the time, i feel like a jerk even being here. I know that so many people situations are sooo much worse than mine and that it could be much worse. The problem is, not caring and not showing he cares come across the same to me.

Maybe the problem is that I don't know how to explain what i want. How do i tell him i want him to be more considerate? I think all that will do is confuse him. I give him examples: (like last night for instance) that if i'm sitting down and he knows that I'm in pain (cause i told him) that maybe rather than asking me to get up, that he could just do it. When i say things like that, he gets this attitude "fine, i'll just do everything myself from now on, do worry about me. you just worry about you" I try to explain to him that i don't mind doing thing for him sometimes and that we are a team, not just two random people, so it's nice for us to help each other out, but that sometimes it is just hard for me, especially now with the pregnancy.

How do i tell him what i need help with when i mostly only need help because he's upset? I don't want to give him a chore list, but i would like him to consider how much i do before he gets mad that something isn't done exactly how he wants it.

How do i tell him that when we spend time together it's the quality not quantity that's important? I know he needs specific things to do, but i don't really have any specifics to give him.

I think i'm fairly reasonable. I don't need gifts and flowers and romantic dinners, i need him to be a little understanding and i need him to be more considerate. I just don't know how to make him understand that.

Hope some of that makes sense.

[ann25]

Blindsided: Hey. I saw some of your sitch. I can't imagine what you are going through. i'll post there later. I'm having the baby either May 23 or 24, depending on when the hospital has openings to schedule my c-section. Less than a month now...