ladybug, I just read these 4 pages on your thread. Your H reminds me alot of myself. I am S because of the emotional abuse I put on my marriage. I have started counseling for myself to change these habits I had ingrained in me. I want to change and feel I have made huge steps in this. I want to tell you that your H has to want to do this if it is going to work. I would really like to see you save your M but I also know that the abuser themselves have to be the one that wants to change, from reading these posts, it doesn't appear that is happening. Good luck with this. I never thought I was this person either until we seperated and I started buying books on how to become better for myself, I started counseling to become better for myself. I do not want to put my W through this again if we are able to work things out. I believe she has seen some changes in me but is not confident those changes will stick becuase just like many, I always said I would change but never did. It's amazing what losing the most important things in your life will do to someone, change can happen but you must want the change to take place first.