Hi everyone, I kinda new to posting a thread on here. I posted once a long time ago in the beginning when this all happened, but stopped. Meanwhile, I have been one of those lurkers reading up on stiches and giving some feedback.
I'm sure you would like to know a bit about my stitch, but it's hard for me to go into much in detail, I guess I've tried my best to block it off. But here is the abbreviated version. Married for 9 years (got married as a teenager), have 2 boys..4 & 7. I've been going to school for 7 out of 9 years and things have been hard/stressful for us. Last June H dropped the bomb, "I love you, but not in love w/ you and I'm not happy and I want a seperation..then later a divorce...then back and forth w/ the 2", being cold and withdrawn..I tried to pursue and work on the marriage on my part..found out later that month that there was another girl..OG (b/c she was only 19, H 27 and me 26)..I ended up moving out by myself w/ 2 boys...he continued to see OG from work and eventually moved in w/ her for 2 about months (he did come back once for 2 weeks, didn't work out and he left) we started marriage counseling in late September...by then I was an emotional trainwreck (I'm sure you know what I mean by trainwreck) to the point of being suicidal...I started reading all Michelle's books and other books on relationships...I basically tried everything desperately trying to save my family and marriage...went through the whole pleaing and begging phase..made a complete fool of myself..I was a complete mess..somehow I ended conversing on a somewhat regular basis w/ OG...we were finding out what he said or did (we were still sleeping/seeing each other from time to time mostly him yelling at me while I begged and cried)..I found out a lot of things I probably shouldn't of, or more than I needed to know...did the stalking thing..he ended moving in Oct. to another city to live w/ best friend to get away from OG and me..or problems and to work..supposedly ended things w/ OG (it did dwindle off at one point but I don't know exactly when for sure..he said around the time he first moved there)..I graduated from school and everything changed for me..emotionally I was a different person..focused on myself and my 2 boys..moved on w/ life started dating and tried my best to block off what happened. This whole time I was on my own..moved to a new place across town..got new vehicle..new job...basically a new start got rid of all the old garbage..and he wasn't involved at all in my life, or boys..also not financially. I did pursue child support through the state (slowest process ever, it didn't really go anywhere either) and I told him if he really wanted a divorce then send me the papers and I will sign (which I've been telling him from the start but he never did). Since December..I have totally moved on w/ my life and accepted his decision and what had happened...I realized what type of mistakes we both made...I was verbally abusive when we fought etc. and realized what went wrong...everything became clear and I was at peace...my life was calm and I learned to love myself and how I wanted to be treated, what kind of person I wanted etc...dated a few people..but at this time I was really picky about who I wanted to be with in a longterm relationship..wanted to do everything the right way and not confuse the kids...but I was pretty happy just being by myself w/o a man...a bit stressed out doing the single mom thing and wished I had more help w/ that, but otherwise happy w/ life..found different side of myself..I stopped pursuing, crying, begging, worrying about what he was doing or seeing since January..I didn't do it for him or my marriage..b/c I gave up on it and I was just moving on w/ my life, finding stability for me and the boys and focusing on us instead. Did all the feel me better stuff..new wardrobe, worked out, the day spa, doing things I enjoyed and what the boys enjoyed..by Feburary H started sensing some changes, told me he still loved me and we started talking as friends..by March we were getting back together slowly. At that point I wasn't ready for him to come back..I was having too much fun w/ my new life which he didn't know about being in another city...we talked and I sensed an emotional change on his part..more I love you's, phone calls and weekly visits, we even took a trip together alone...about 2 weeks ago on one of his visits he told me he had a surprise for me...thinking it was for Mother's Day...some present maybe..but later he told me he was moving back next week...during this whole time I have been going w/ the flow..not getting to emotionally involved w/ H's change of heart just in case also I wasn't sure on my part how I felt or what I wanted. To say anything, just kept quiet..I did tell him I loved him..b/c I still did and always will (can't forget 9 years and 2 kids). But I wasn't sure if I was in love w/ him anymore.. a lot of resentment for what he did..had evil flashbacks from the past of our whole seperation..OG etc...still do...and that is why I am here...he wants to go to counseling again to work out our issues..which we are in the process of trying to find a good counselor..he has moved back in for a week now..I have had a few breakdowns myself d/t the flashbacks..and we had one arguement about the past..he blames me for things that leaded up to the seperation and I blamed him for the seperation/cheating..a lot of pointing fingers being defensive and at one point I doubted my decision..still do at times but unlike before I kept it to myself (I know I have changed because I do a lot more thinking before I react/or blurt words out)..I tell myself to give it some time, miracles don't happen overnight... communication has been a problem for us but we just had a great heart to heart/ full blown honesty chat last night. I even found out some things that probably would of sent me off the cliff but I stayed open minded and calm, we both did. Which made me feel much better about what direction things are going, couple of days ago..there were times I felt like giving up. A lot of issues to work on..trust, communications, falling in love again etc. And I know we have a long road ahead...I told him I loved him and I know that I do and I do love my family..and it's worth trying..you'll never know until you do otherwise I may regret it if I don't later on that I didn't give it my all and passed up an opportunity to keep our family together..but at the sametime I'm afraid too, I'm afraid of being trapped in a unhappy marriage, getting more resentful of what had happened, bitter and ending up like my mom...staying married for the kids and convience. I know what type of man, marriage and family I want..he may not have all the qualities that I now want in a man (what I wanted back when I was 18 is a lot different from what I want now) but we have been though so much together, we have a family together, I feel like we belong together and I do love him, maybe not in love quite yet..but I have fallen out of and back before w/ him and I know it is a possibility..(we were seperated for 2 months 7 years ago, similar situation). Deep down inside I do want the white picket fence dream w/ him...I now realistically nobody has that ideal marriage and family life..but I'm willing to try for it. But I need help from all of you to help me through the resentment and the fear..I feel that I have forgiven him but the hard part is forgeting...I was fine when he was gone in another city, for some reason the flashbacks don't come unless he's around..and it has gotten worse as we saw each other more..almost like post-traumatic stress disorders like what Vietnam Vets go through..but all I can say it was all a process for me..I keep up on a few people on the messageboard and I remember myself in that desperation phase..it seems like a long time ago but also yesterday..I made so much progress from there and I don't ever ever want to be there again..that was the lowest point in my life so far and I promised myself I'm not going to allow myself to fall apart like that again. I told him that this is the last time and I won't be here ever like this if it ever happened again. And he told me if I asked him for a divorce (which I did when I was angry routinely once a month or a few months when we fought..I don't know why I did that, asking for something I never wanted..a few clues related to my mom, testing or hurting him the only way I know...which he feels is the number one reason why he left and used someone else to hurt me, to "teach me a lesson"...he feels none of this would of happened if I stopped a long time ago..he said he heard it so much that he thought it was going to happen sooner or later..then emotionally detached..so why not just leave..and to leave with a bang...) Anyways, I'm getting pretty longwinded here..lots to say about what happened..just trying to give you a glimpse of what brought me here to this point in time..I don't want to get into too much detail..because my husband has already put a keylogger (which reads everything I typed) on my computer once to check up on me to see if I'm cheating..I told him last night about this website, he kind new about it..but I still have to watch everything I type..basically I'm here to meet other people who feel similar to what I feel or am going through..and would like to develop a support group outside of our marital counseling. Hopefully, I'm not the only one feeling these things, I'm sure I'm not and it's probably typical for some people...but whether or not you are..I would like to hear from you and about your situation...it's nice to get some insight from a different perspective. And I would love to help in my own little way if I can for anybody out there who wants it. Otherwise thanks for listening and I don't know about where you are..but it's a beautiful day outside and I'm not going to waste another bit of it indoors... so meanwhile take care of yourself and your hearts..I know all of you wouldn't be here if you didn't have one. Love Dimples p.s. didn't proof read this..so sorry for the typos.
welcome to piecing...all of the things you are feeling are normal!!! I hope otherwise we are both in trouble... I went through a 6+ month sepeartion...h in long term ea (so far only admits to ea) d talk and all that fun stuff...did the pleading crying etc...called ow to get info...etc...eventually when I gave up and let h just go...h decided to come home..well with my permission that is.
funny thing about the past...when it's not in your face you can deal with it much better...it's normal for the flashbacks and fear..with time they will dissepate...
I am also here in piecing...I warn you I have a tendancy to rant....there are lot's of folks here in piecing that have dealt with or are dealing with the same feelings you are having that will be along soon.
welcome abord the ride.
and oh!! most importantly don't stop being you...the you that you became when you finally gave up..the fun things you were doing for yourself and the boys...keep it up!! LL
Hi LL, Thanks for the reply, it's nice to know that other people are out there who are experiencing similar feelings and emotions. I didn't get a chance to look for your stitch, but I will after this reply. But I do have a few questions for you and other people out there who would like to respond..So what do you do when you have flashbacks..is it better to try to suppress those thoughts when it first occurs or should you address them together..it would be nice to do it in counseling but a counselor can't be there 24 hours during the day. It's funny how they come about..a word or material object can bring it back. I get this hot, heavy, breathless and sick feeling first in the pit of my stomach, then it runs up my chest and neck when it comes..not quite sure what it is..more like a whirl of emotions..rage, anger, pain, confusion, etc. At that very momment I feel like I was there all over again. So far I have been pretty good about trying to stay calm...punching bag, working out, walking away etc. And I've also gave my H a few hints on what triggers it..for me trying to get rid of every material, smell, or words make it a lot easier; "getting rid of all the drama and garbage", is what I called it when I moved on w/o H and now since he's back in the picture he opened an old wound", also I tell him I need reassurance from him on his part in regards to what happened and how he feels has been helpful for me. So what do you do when you experience them and how do you handle it? Is it normal to feel like you want to be revengeful (I honestly would love to punch OW out, but at the same time I'm trying to be rash..I still sense the immaturity side of me and if I was placed in the same room I'm not sure how I would react..more for wanting to avoid complications w/ the law I've tried my best to avoid the temptation of doing it, it's funny I'm not usually the physical type person, I guess only when I'm pushed that far) either to your WAS or to OW/OM and carrying it out, would you recommend it or not..probably not for humanitarian reasons, but at the same time it would give me brief momment of pleasure in a non-christian way. Should they be remoreseful, for me husband feels like he made a mistake and was wrong, but he has so much pride that he justifies it partly being that it would never have happened if I didn't do wrong in the first place. I try to understand and look at things with a open mind and from his perspective. As I posted previously, I've made my share of mistakes, but it never involved a 2nd person, cheating, or me walking away emotionally or physically for a long period of time. Also do you think an EA is any easier than a PA? I can distinguish between the two but at the same time it's hard to not believe that they don't go hand in hand? How do you handle the doubts and fears..."if he/she really loved me and cared about me and our marriage why would they have done that, isn't cheating the ultimate betrayal and destruction to a relationship?" and is there really blame on both parts of the spouses to what lead up to the cheating? And do you regret talking to OW, would it been easier to know less than what you know now and how much should you pursue in knowing more from spouse? Curiousity can be good sometimes but it can also be more hurtful at the end. I've been on both ends, wanting to know the answers to questions and giving them..I appreciate the need for honesty in a relationship, but also at the same time in reality we would all love that to be true but for a lot of us we all have skeletons in our closets..I know that having to tell the truth at times when you are put on the hot seat, you face the dilemma of being honest or wanting to prevent further damage to the situation. And you don't know which one is any better or worse. It may not be a hard choice for some people, but depending on the situation and other variables, it can be a tough one. One last question...how would you react if your spouse were to tell you that at the time this is how I may have felt or wanted at the time to be w/ OW or OM but now they realize they just used her/him to hurt you or used them as a crutch/ distraction ... can you believe that is true or just a lie to soften up the previous blow? Sorry about the 20 questions, but these are a few of the questions going through my head at times. This is all new to me..we were seperated before, but for a shorter time and I guess I know less the first time/or the situation wasn't as extreme, plus I was younger at the time...but all these emotions are somewhat new to me..7 months ago I would of taken him back in a heartbeat without a second thought but it's different now for me..and as you said having it slapped in my face having to put it away for so long I'm faced with having to deal with suppressed feelings that I have put away in my mind and it's almost a bit overwhelming at times. I look and sound pretty calm in person and w/ my H but my emotions and mind is secretly twirling everytime I have a flashback.. Also, I swear I'm not trying to do a survey or write a book..and I know that everybody's situation is different and we would all react in our own way, but it's nice to look at if from a different perspective. Thanks Dimples. P.S. are we ever going to forget after we forgive???
first things first...for easier reading try to break your post into paragraphs...
ok, you've asked a ton of questions, I'll do my best to answer them...
Quote: So what do you do when you have flashbacks..is it better to try to suppress those thoughts when it first occurs or should you address them together..it would be nice to do it in counseling but a counselor can't be there 24 hours during the day.
depends on what triggers them...there are times when the flashbacks will simply come along due to something inside you having nothing to do with h or anything else...I find at times it's best to just let them go...the more "stink" I make about them the harder it is on h and I to work on things together. you'll have to find your own balance.
Quote: It's funny how they come about..a word or material object can bring it back. I get this hot, heavy, breathless and sick feeling first in the pit of my stomach, then it runs up my chest and neck when it comes..not quite sure what it is..more like a whirl of emotions..rage, anger, pain, confusion, etc. At that very momment I feel like I was there all over again. So far I have been pretty good about trying to stay calm...punching bag, working out, walking away etc.
sounds like anxiety...good that you've found ways to "deal" with it...in re to walking away...if h is there just let him know it's going to take you some time. it does start to occur less and less as time goes by..
Quote: And I've also gave my H a few hints on what triggers it
excellent!! and how does he react when you let him know these things??
Quote: now since he's back in the picture he opened an old wound", also I tell him I need reassurance from him on his part in regards to what happened and how he feels has been helpful for me.
yes it is the opening of an old wound...but that wound is healable...with the right antibiotic..some from you and some from h..
how has h been doing at offering reassurances to you?
Quote: So what do you do when you experience them and how do you handle it?
try to think of something else... remind myself that was then this is now... look toward the future... come here and rant away... on rare occassions let h know...
Quote: Is it normal to feel like you want to be revengeful (I honestly would love to punch OW out,
YUP!!! I have many fantasies of kicking her a$$, actually the latest involves her being tossed into her own pool during an open house. (she's selling her house)
Quote: would you recommend it or not..probably not for humanitarian reasons, but at the same time it would give me brief momment of pleasure in a non-christian way
a BRIEF moment of pleasure is all it will give you...then you will be left with guilt and shame for doing it...best to leave those feelings for her and the betraying spouse. the best revenge toward her would be to have a happy successful r with your h!!
Quote: Should they be remoreseful, for me husband feels like he made a mistake and was wrong, but he has so much pride that he justifies it partly being that it would never have happened if I didn't do wrong in the first place.
being remorseful and feeling like you made a mistake and were wrong are very similar...understand that the betraying spouse is likely to place some of the "blame" for the a on the non-betraying spouse...if you weren't so...if you didn't ... don't let it get to you...in time h will realize that though you had a responsible role in the downfall of the r you are not in any way shape or form responsible for his choosing to have an a as a result of a failing m.
Quote: Also do you think an EA is any easier than a PA? I can distinguish between the two but at the same time it's hard to not believe that they don't go hand in hand?
honestly for me the ea is harder to deal with than the pa!! if h was simply physical with someone I would just percieve him as a dog...it is possible to have sexual relations with someone without an emotional connection...the emotional connection my h shared with ow is more hurtful to me than if it were just him getting laid by her.
they don't always go hand in hand...it is possible to have sex without an emotional connenction just as it is possible to have an emotional connection and not have sex.
Quote: How do you handle the doubts and fears..."if he/she really loved me and cared about me and our marriage why would they have done that, isn't cheating the ultimate betrayal and destruction to a relationship?"
I do my best to handle the fears...I come here...I try to note the possitive changes h is making...I try to understand the fear and that it's ok to be afraid but also note that in being afraid I am denying both h and I the right to a truly satisfying r...the fear will fade with time...with each possitive interaction.
yes, cheating is distructive...it is betrayal...but it does not have to mean the end of the r. it means the r was already broken down...one party sought what they were looking for or needing elsewhere...the old r is in a sense destroyed and must be rebuilt...thus "piecing our m back together" a new r with the spouse must be formed....
Quote: and is there really blame on both parts of the spouses to what lead up to the cheating?
not blame but responsiblilty...each partner played a role in the downfall of the r...that still doesn't make you responsible for the cheating though.
Quote: And do you regret talking to OW,
not at all, I may regret some of the things I said...but I'm glad I spoke to her...actually she often wouldn't shut up...now at least I know how pathetic she is and am certain that though her and my h had something...it wouldn't have lasted..and obviously didn't as he came home as soon as she made herself fully available to him (she was married and is getting a d now)
Quote: how much should you pursue in knowing more from spouse?
only what you want to know...and if h is comfortable with giving answers...that may take some time.
Quote: how would you react if your spouse were to tell you that at the time this is how I may have felt or wanted at the time to be w/ OW or OM but now they realize they just used her/him to hurt you or used them as a crutch/ distraction ... can you believe that is true or just a lie to soften up the previous blow?
in my case I would love to hear it...I'd believe it...after all it is the truth anyway isn't it...it just takes some longer to realize it than others.
Quote: are we ever going to forget after we forgive???
I doubt we'll ever forget...but just like those embarrasing moments that you thought would be your end..in time they fade to a distant memory...
Thanks for the great suggestions and insight. Sorry about my long paragraphs, I get carried away and I have a tendency to ramble off. Things are going well, I know I'll have good and bad days, and as it was a process before to move on, it'll be one for me in "piecing". We meet our new counselor next week and we'll see how that goes.
As to your questions...He's pretty good at working with me on my triggers...he loves his car but he's willing to give it up for me because for some reason it's a trigger point..so we have been looking but it may not be a pratical decision right now, so we might put that off.
Being affectionate and more verbal about his feelings has been helpful in reassuring me that I am making the right decision about our reconcilation and falling in love again with him. My H has this manly ego or machoness, and is not quite intuitive to his sensitive side. But we are working on it.
As I said earlier we've been together since we were teenagers, and I really miss how it was in the beginning when we first met. Why is it we always treat each other better in the beginning? That's one of my issues, I feel angry/disappointed that over time this disinergrated. He didn't do the things he used to do in the beginning, took me for granted (which I did too of him). But I find myself most resentful is that he treated a complete stranger (OG) during that time better than he treated his family, his wife and kids. While we are the ones who have actually been there for him all these years with the good and the bad. I'm really family oriented and believe that family comes first and I feel betrayed by it. So I find myself comparing a lot with what I heard from OG, and it just burns me inside to know that he did that for somebody else besides me..his wife. Which is so wrong...no matter how your relationship or situation is at the time in your marriage.
Things aside from our issues on our seperation, our communication has gotten better. I do see some progress and I feel calmer today.. (it's funny, doesn't this emotional rollercoaster ride end...I've never felt so bipolar in my life. I'm really looking forward to some stability in my life, especially with my emotions. Just when I felt like I have found some, things change again with him coming back). We are both pretty stubborn and confrontational people. We both see things one way, our way. But again we are working on it. I have no control over his own realizations and decisions on what he wants to change about himself, but hopefully, we have both learned from this crisis and about each of our own mistakes that lead up to this in the past. I know I definitely have and I see some changes in myself. I'm more calm, open-minded and analytical. I try not to react before I think, which is my problem.
But anyways, I'll try not to write a novel again so I'll end it here. Hopefully, the spacing helped..I'm still kinda new to this posting thing, so any tips help. Also, I don't remember what you said about how long you have been in the process of "piecing". Also feel free to vent to me, I have more time tonight to read up on your stitch so I'll try to post on yours also. And sometimes it may take me a little while to reply back b/c I don't always get a chance to check my email. Anyways, I hope that things are going well for you and for all of you out there...all I can say is, take it one day at a time and flow with it...tomorrow is another day.
With much love, Dimples
P.S. I told my husband about about me posting on this site..he's been a bit paranoid about what I have been doing while we were seperated and has been checking up on me and on the computer, so when he put the keylogger (which is now gone supposely) on my computer he read one of my replys to somebody's stitch (that's how he found out about this website)...but I asked him to promise me that he wouldn't try to read up on what I'm doing on this messageboard..I told him that this is my own form of personal counseling and if he would respect the fact I would like to keep it private. He tried avoiding the subject, but he did promise...so I'm a bit worried about how open I can be about posting how I feel. Do you guys ever worry that your spouse or someone you may know may recognize you on this site?
p.s. didn't proof read this..so sorry for the typos.