I knew you guys were going through a lot right now, but it's sure nice to get an update.
Great stuff with healing some of those past issues too. Interestingly, my one grave sin that I didn't realize hurt CJ so badly was impulsively writing a letter to an old high school sweetheart a few months before our wedding.
I'm not even sure why I did it...Hadn't seen the guy for years, we only ever kissed, he was kind of a "bad boy" (not like CJ)...CJ found out and was VERY hurt. At the time I rather dismissed it as a need for "closure" and THOUGHT we'd hashed it out.
Apparently not as that came up over and over when he was having his A, talking about how crappy our M was!
Oh well. Good to know we're not alone in this, huh?
Sounds like it. It's a day-to-day struggle to try and figure out what when wrong when, as well as all of the junk that has accumulated over time to make us who we are today. Like you, SAM, my W is also evaluating things...things about us in the past and things about her past before me.
I think, now that you ladies have come around, you're in a more healthy and stronger place to do the soul-searching that needs to be done to really improve yourselves and to feel more fulfilled in your lives. Although exceedingly difficult at times, I'm convinced it can only help strengthen your resolve to do what needs to be done for you, and to improve your R with SBH. Good for you.
BTW, good luck on finding the home of your dreams! I'll send some positive vibes your way!
Quote: I realized that is the same feeling I was having when SBH first found out about the As. Like, f-u for being hurt now - this is about ME, not about you. I love you, I didn't leave you, I was about to decide not to leave you anyway, and f-u for all of a sudden being so worried about what I'm doing when before you just left me alone and didn't even know how lonely I was, even though I told you over and over again.
Hi- Thought I'd drop in on your post! I know exactly how you feel when you say this!!For 8 freakin years I tried to tell him we had a problem then when I started the A- THEN he started to worry about what I was doing and what was happening!
I was gonna add some more...but will stop for now. I have to think about how I want to say it! Sounds like your sitch has similarities to mine! Sorry to hear about all the legal trouble! Fortunately, when my H went and beat the crap out of OM and his friend- I was able to keep them from pressing charges! Actually, I think they were too embarrassed to admit they got thier a** kicked...
Anyway- feel free to email me privately or I can give you my aol im screen name....
Nice to meet you!
Sandra
Never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...
i guess one of my problems is i am possessive and jealous. our troubles from january before last stem from that. i was upset because i felt you were not loving me as much as you could because you still loved xbf. I read your July 4 posts. I never demanded a letter of explanation from you. I just wanted a love letter as a way to make peace. reading the words makes them more real to me, i guess. God knows I never and still would never insult you or make you feel like a whore/adulterer. You are my wife, my lover, and my best friend. I was never made to believe or understand you were "feeling lost and alone and humiliated and like an adulterer!" i didn't know i was doing that to you and i wish you realized this before things went too far. to me being unfaithful and being an adulterer are different. being unfaithful is an emotional affair, though i didn't know to call it that back then. it is like you want more than i can give and i felt i was being replaced by your wishes for something more. my saying "our marriage is no longer perfect" was simply my starry eyed belief that marriages meant people don't argue and live for only each other. totally unrealistic. adultery is physical. period. i guess i make that distinction because i care so much about feelings and being so close to you. i never understood that the thoughts about xbf were due to your pain from him and not due to your love for him. i just didn't understand my anger was making you feel like a whore. thick headed and dim witted. i am sorry. i feel better having read your last post after you and i talked last night. your words on the bb "I stewed and worried and felt guilty about the decision to have the As BY MYSELF." made me sad because you never had to go this alone. you weighed your options and you made a decision to cheat on me instead of trying harder to help me understand. you gave up on me. your other words "we made love one night and I started crying b/c I felt so close to him, but it was painful b/c I'd only ever felt that close to one other person, and I'd never really gotten over the grief/pain of him 'using' me our senior year of college and then dumping me just before graduation," makes me feel guilty for not understanding that your tears were about the pain you suffered by xbf's hand. i just thought you were still in love with him. and you knew that. i just thought you were in love with him still and i am/was too possessive to allow you to love anyone but me. i wasn't man enough to let you hurt my pride and all that was left was my jealousy and look where it got me. i am sorry. i hate where we are and i hate what you did and i hate the way your family handled it and i hate my contribution to it. i hate my contribution to it. everything you said after that night was filtered through my "warped" and jealous mind. I thought you still loved him...i thought you still loved him and i wanted you all to myself. greedy greedy greedy. stupid stupid stupid. i am sorry. i didn't understand what you were sharing and just how important it was. i'm sorry. that is why i felt there was a difference between the molestation and (what i thought was) your love for xbf. "But I still feel wounded about being called an adulterer, and all that has happened since. It is going to take me awhile to trust HIM again." i never called you an adulterer even after your affairs. i hope it doesn't take long for you to trust me again. you kept saying you were lonely, but i was working the overnight schedule because we decided it was a good way to make more money. a decision made together. i asked many many times should i change schedules and you kept saying i didn't need to. do you understand what i am saying? can you see what i was going through at that time and how oblivious i was to what i was doing to you? you never told me you felt like a whore. i would never do that consciously. i understand where you were and i am so very sorry. this has all been pretty devastating for us but i know we'll pull through. thanks for the chat last night. it helps me very much when you apologize and promise it will never happen again. I promise to understand you better and to love you even more. God bless us.
as for smofry's words:
Quote: For 8 freakin years I tried to tell him we had a problem then when I started the A- THEN he started to worry about what I was doing and what was happening!
sorry, but i feel the onus is on the disgruntled partner to make the other understand, even if it takes eight years. no slight intended but before the disgruntled one acts out his or her disgruntledness, maybe something like "Honey, I'm unhappy. We need to change or I am going to have an affair," should have been said. It would definitely get someone's attention.
Quote: sorry, but i feel the onus is on the disgruntled partner to make the other understand, even if it takes eight years. no slight intended but before the disgruntled one acts out his or her disgruntledness, maybe something like "Honey, I'm unhappy. We need to change or I am going to have an affair," should have been said. It would definitely get someone's attention.
Well maybe in a perfect world you could tell your spouse that and he would be so understanding and have such an epiphany that the marriage would be miraculously healed (excuse the sarcasm!)but this is NOT the perfect world. I TOLD him time and time again I was unhappy. I TOLD him we needed to go to counseling (which he will NOT do even to this day). I TOLD him going to bars 4 to 5 nights a week wasn't working for me and that I needed him to spend time with me. I THREATENED to start going to the bars myself (which I didn't)and it didn't phase him. I wrote him a LONG letter a year or so before the A telling him I felt we were slipping away from each other and that we needed to make some changes or our marriage was not going to make it. I TOLD him in writing, I told him verbally, I begged, I pleaded, I yelled, I was distant, I talked calmy, I threatened to leave him...NOTHING I did got through to him, I even had some of his best friends talk to him... but he was in his own pain and solving it by going to bars and ultimately meeting the OW that he had an EA with (I still think it was a PA). Maybe in your sitch your W didn't tell you she was in pain and your marriage was in trouble but in my sitch- I made it VERY clear. AND it was very clear to our friends and family as well. I NEVER thought "well if we don't make some changes then I'm going to have an affair". It is not something I planned, it is not something I thought I would EVER do. (It came as quite a shock to those who know me). I can't even explain it...I was so empty and miserable and unhappy. I didn't realize at the time just how miserable I was. (I see it now- but you know what they say about hind sight!)My mom always says that if you provide the opportunity then satan will provide the temptation. And I allowed myself to provide the opportunity. Enter in the "sympathetic" mutual friend of ours who started telling me what I NEEDED to hear from my husband but wasn't and before I really knew it things were out of control. And in hind sight I realize the OM knew exactly what he was doing by playing on my weakness. I look back now and can't believe I was such a fool! I AM smarter than that and I NEVER saw it coming. I really thought he was a friend and that he cared about me...turns out he was interested in things other than friendship (duh -how stupid can I be?)My H hasn't forgiven me for the A and won't even acknowledge that what he had was an A. But more than that- I can't even forgive myself because I thought I was stonger than that and better than that. I am extremely ANGRY with myself that I let it happen and I can assure you it will NEVER happen again. I do learn from my mistakes and I will never put myself in that position again.
Sorry to hog your thread...just wanted to respond to your comment and let you know that in my sitch it wasn't just as easy as saying- "hey there's a problem here!"
I've been following you and your W's thread- keep up the hard work!
Sandra
Never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...
From your post Sandra it's clear you really DID make your feelings clear, or at least to a much larger degree than did CJ (and perhaps Sam??).
Sandra, the very MOST I heard from CJ in the years he claims he was miserable was while we were arguing he would get upset and say he didn't appreciate my sarcasm.
I was the one who bought all of the relationship books, who initiated all of the R talks, who mentioned counselling (you should have seen how devastaded he looked...this was shortly pre EA #1).
So in SOME cases it seems our S's attempts to communicate their unhappiness IS less blatant, and I think for some of us (thick headed, no doubt) almost dismissed.
I hear what SAD is saying. I've asked CJ what he had to lose if just before taking the step to move from "chat pals" to EA's, or just before making the EA's PA's he sat me down and said "I am so unhappy in our M, we need to make some REAL changes or it will end."
I asked him, did he really think I could have dismissed THAT!!! Of COURSE not...but he said he was afraid to do that...kept hoping that things would get better?...then had two A's? ...I just don't understand that. Perhaps you can, Sam?
Take good care all. Sounds like you two had a good clarifying conversation the other night. Excellent.
HI, guys! Thanks for your posts - actually, we're painting and I don't have time to read all of it now - but I'm looking forward to it. Poor Sad, I was really kind of letting loose and getting my feelings out, he told me he stuck up for himself in his response that I haven't had a chance to read...my parents are here now to help us with the kids, so it is crazy...But I really do appreciate your posts, guys...
Sandra - I thought we had some similar aspects to our situations...I'll hopefully catch up soon.
Jethro - your support & responses really help me feel that I'm not so alone and that Sad is right on track, since the two of you seem to be going through this process in a similar manner...thanks :-)
Thanks Shiny! I just finished painting our bedroom...now to the downstairs bath...getting excited about possibility of having a new house in a much better area for us (not that ours is a bad/dangerous area, just new subdivision with not much interaction among neighbors - and FAR AWAY (20 min drive) from the things we do and places we go)!
OK. We had counseling tonight, which we haven't had for 4 weeks b/c of us being sick, then counselor being busy & then out of town the next week...
Anyway, I really have continued to be angry at SBH for putting me in a position where I felt like an adulterer, which, as you said, Sandra, set me up to leave a open entry for satan to slip in. I have really thought about that a lot in the past few months. I used to not believe in satan, just in the badness inherent in human nature, mainly due to our physical needs...But I felt so strongly that I was in a race against satan during my As, and now even pre-A; I felt so bad, and I was working on it, trying to solve the problem, but I was falling short, and the devil just stuck his nose right in and I was not strong enough to resist the temptation he presented. I knew my career and my marriage were on the line, that if I didn't get my head cleared I was going to be ruined. Partly, I was SO AFRAID of the hell I was heading for, I stuck my head in the sand and just kept on praying for help, without really having the guts to face what I really needed to do.
When I was in high school, and the first semester of college, I used to read my Bible before bedtime every night (well, weeknights, anyway...). I went to church in H.S., with myboyfriend (but my initiative, just went to his church) because my parents didn't go to church. My dad is too cynical.
Anyway, after I was molested, about a couple of months, I started to feel so bad, and the prayer didn't seem to be helping, and I got so tired because I was so depressed, and working so hard in a double degree program (piano performance and psychology) (I've always been the Billy Joel "Should I try to be a straight A student - If ya' are then you think too much" kind of person). I stopped reading & praying. Got mad at God. After many many years, I finally realized that if I was so mad at Him, I must really believe in Him. heh, heh. DUH! My faith started turning around at that point.
In fact, I started attending church almost the same week my first A started (as far as I can remember)! Again, that race with satan...
Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I now have MUCH MORE faith - I am very much more in touch with my gratitude for all that I do have, and less sorry for myself for the things I don't have at this point in my life. What a difference that makes. And I am much more calm about things - the future - knowing that, hey, if God brought me through the past year when I was behaving so badly, just think how much more He will be able to do when I'm on His side!
But also, and mostly trying to focus on, He has done so much for me. I have so much to be thankful for (like, He'll even forgive me for ending a sentence with a preposition!!!)! I don't really need anything else. I will just take life as it comes.
Tomorrow I start working at the kids day care. For $7.50 an hour. Plus free day care, which comes to about $12,000 a year for my two at this point. Not what I was making before, but not a terrible salary. I don't know yet if we can make it on just that & what SBH makes, but I have faith we will find a way.
And I'm sure He has something out there waiting for me to do, that will earn more money, but, more importantly, be serving Him more fully. But, if it's day care for the next couple of years, I will undertake to do it joyfully! Another realization - I have been SO unhappy as a psychologist - really even felt like maybe it wasn't the job for me, but I thought it was what God wanted me to do. I took all the blame for being unhappy - it's my depression, it's my motherhood, it's my position in THIS particular practice - I need to get therapy, feel better as a mother, change practices - it never really dawned on my that the bad feelings could be God telling me I needed to find something else to do.
Don't I feel sheepish now, having irrevocably lost a career that God was trying to tell me to walk away from before it ever got to the mess it got to. And, which is worse, hurt my husband so terribly in the process.
Well, SBH and I do have some very tough issues to discuss. And we really did both crawl into our own cocoons when the hurt came on so strongly a year-and-a-half ago. Our C was telling us that today. But the truth is, we are typically so good at discussing difficult issues - we almost always clarify, make sure we understand the other person before we respond, we're compassionate with each other, respectful, loving...well, we just got so mixed up last year, the pain was too much and we both coped in a distancing manner.
We will not keep doing that now, I'm sure!
Sandra - I know JUST how you feel about being mad at yourself. I told SBH tonight after the C session - when he said I was unfaithful it hurt so much, because I am NOT an unfaithful person. That has meant so much to me throughout my life. I am passionnate about that. NEVER have cheated on anyone. Even in high school. Even guys I was just seeing casually (i.e., dating no sex). I would make a clean break before I would move on. I feel so ANGRY that SBH made me feel so bad about myself, left me so lonely, that I was vulnerable to do something that I would NEVER EVER DO!
And, like you Sandra, I have LEARNED MY LESSON. I rarely make the same mistake twice. I'm a quick learner. And you can BET this will never happen again.
Thanks, again, for everyone's support.
I've stolen as much time as I can from my family - kids are banging down the door!!!!
I really want to read up on your sitch, Sandra....Hopefully in the next couple of days!
...I just don't understand that. Perhaps you can, Sam?
And, which is worse, hurt my husband so terribly in the process.