i'm clueless....

[sandi2]

Ann, Sweetie (((hugs)))

It hurts me to see you have to go through this with your H. My H said almost the same thing to me about he wanted to be assured that I was going to put 100% effort back into the M. I had just got through telling the man that I did not know if I could ever feel the same way about him again! Maybe it is a "man" thing.

What does not sound at all healthy is that your H is sticking his head in the sand. Except, the "sand" here is the videos. I know how addictive Internet games can be and how they can lead to other things b/c that is what got me into trouble and eventually meeting the OM and having the EA.

When you were talking about how the couple you two went to visit talked about their past/problems and you laid yours out there and was hoping that your H would do the same when it came his turn to talk....but instead, he sounded like everything was fine. That was always the way my H was about everything. I honestly wondered if he went around in complete denial about life! If I had not told my parents how things really were between my H and I as we were growing up in our M.....they would have thought everything was just lovely! My dad even came over one night (many years before he passed away) to talk to us and give my H a chance to talk, but H would not do it, instead he just smiled and sounded like everything was honky-dorey. I could have pulled my hair out! As you know b/c you have kept up with most of my stitch, my H would never consent to go to a counselor even after we almost S when he found out about OM. He will never discuss our personal life with anyone.....never. He can't even put into words how he feels just to me!

My H spends a lot of time on the computer, but it isn't with games b/c he has never been interested in anything "fun" like that. But my heart just breaks over what your H is doing where those little girls are concerned and I am very worried about what kind of scars it may leave on them and their personal R with other men when they get older. If they feel their daddy doesn't want them or show them enough love.....well, you know what will more than likely happen when they are grown and I know you don't want that.

Wish I could help you sweetie. I know you feel that you are trying as hard as you can and it looks like he isn't doing anything. I sure hope the trip to Vegas isn't a "bust" in more ways than one.

I admire how you are there for so many others.....and especially me! In spite of your own pain, you reach out to others to encourage them. Several times you have just come to me to let me know that you understood how I felt. That helped so much!!!

That is about all I can do for you honey, is tell you I know how you feel. Remember we all are here for you whenever you need to reach out to us. I hope he gets his head out of the "sand" soon.

Love ya,
Sandi

[RedHeadWife]

I haven't read through the entire thread so if I am repeating anything that anyone else has said thus far, I apologize.

Do you feel your H is still *angry* about the EA, or just has no desire to put any effort into your M?

Is this how he has always been, thus your EA?

[ann25]

Hi Sandi -
Thanks sooo much. I appreciate you coming by here to encourage me. My biggest concerns in my M aren't even about my R with my H. I could deal with that if it were just me he was hurting. But it's not. He gets short tempered and angry with her. Don't get me wrong, he's not ALWAYS like that, but it does happen often enough that it breaks my heart. He doesn't even realize he does it. Even after this last time, I stood in front of the TV and told him he needed to talk to her. He did the "i love you, but i'm the boss" thing and sent her back to me. Sometimes he's really good with her; playing outside and stuff. Anytime it comes to the emotional stuff, he doesn't get it. I grew up and married a man the treats me similarly to how my dad treated my mom. She stuck it out til we were all in HS until his last A. I don't want them to have a M like this. It's just not fair to them. I want them to know that love shouldn't be/seem one sided. That Ms can be healthy and loving... Maybe it is a man thing. I'm almost ready to take a break from pushing him on our R to maybe just see if he could do some parenting classes or something (i'd take them too). Seeing my babies cry because he's just not willing to try with them hurts more than anything he has ever said or done to me, and now I'm bringing another little girl into that. I know i've gotten advice about focusing on my M first, but i think it would be a lot easier to love him if he was better with the girls.

RedHeadWife -
I apreciate your comments. In regards to his special part on the video game... The first few times, i was happy for him. I asked him about it and I even sat and watched him play for a while, telling him how cool it was that he was getting to the next level and such... In the last week, he has probably spent over 20 evening hours playing. I get home at about 7pm and try to get to bed by midnight. I just have a hard time being supportive of that. You are right about my tone and I definitely shouldn't have been sarcastic about it, but for what it's worth, i don't think he even heard me. I'm normally more thoughful about how i speak to him. I think it was just cause I was so ready to talk with him and he basically just pushed me (and our M) aside because his game was more important.

I don't know if he's anrgy about the EA. I'm going to assume that's why he gets mad all the time, but since he's NEVER admitted to being angry about it even since he first found out, i just don't know.

While I won't ever blame him for the EA, the events leading up to it went roughly like this (condensed version):

(First few months)H questions me about possible OM. There wasn't one and I reassured him like crazy and try to find out why he thinks that so i can change behavior. He has no reason.
(Next couple months)H started becoming really disrespectful of me and started yelling ALOT. My response to his accusations is now simple denial. There was not any A. I wasn't hiding anything.
(next couple months) H and I argued almost everytime we spoke. H is still hurtful and disrespectful, even infront of friends. Accusations still fly about the A I wasn't having. At this point, I am getting angry about it. He has no reason to think these things.
(next couple months) H and I rarely talk. He spends most of his time in his office. We avoid each other except when we go out, then we put on a "happily married" front and play nice. He still makes accusations and at this point i try to ignore them and the names he calls me with them.
(after that) i tell H, ILYBNILWY, He says if i can't guarantee 100% that we can work it out and make things better that he can't stay M to me and wants a D. I told him i couldn't because i was hurting and I wasn't sure, but I would give 100% effort to make it work. Not good enough, he wanted a D. H starts sleeping in his office
about a month later, i met OM online through a support the troops thing. He was overseas and I was like his penpal. It went from friendship to a EA...

Things before this weren't great, but they were OK. This all started shortly before we had our 2nd D, if i remember right... it's been a while now. She's almost 2.

Don't know if any of that made sense... hehe

Thanks again for stopping by ladies... I appreciate any comments, advice, and encouragement i can get!

[Dom R]

....
I know that everyone said it was so important to be firm, so important to make him talk to me and so important to make things clear now and that was the plan... By the end of the weekend, i realized something. I don't want to have to fight him just to get him to talk to me. I shouldn't have to do that should i?

....

I know that's the wrong attitude to have and that i deserve a whole bunch of 2x4s for it, but i just can't seem to shake it. Maybe it's just a bad few days.

Hiya Ann...
I think you posted all that, 'cause you know you need something... so here it is



Ann: You gotta get out of the "shouldnt have to" mode.
It's killing your chance at a better marriage. It's giving you an excuse to play "poor me", and not DO ANYTHING!

If you dont do anything... then nothing will change.
If you dont do anything, you know your husband wont either


Forget about "I shouldnt have to..".
Start thinking about "I NEED TO...".


yes, you're absolutely right.. you "shouldnt have to".
In a fully functional, both-parties-actively-work-on-the-marriage situation... you wouldnt need to.

Unfortunately, your marriage isnt like that right now. Your husband is not actively working on your marriage. (and unfortunatley, the primary reason for that, is that you've 'told' him by your actions and non-actions, that it is OK for him not to work on your marriage)

A way that you can GET there, though, is to confront him about this.

In the first day you talked about, sounds like your biggest mistake, was not talk to him right away.

You tried "we needed to talk later", and it obviously didnt work. This isnt surprising; There will always be a "special part".

What's more important, that "special part" of a GAME, or your marriage and family?
I know your answer.
Tonight, ask him for his answer. Dont accept evasion tactics, attempts to change the subject or distract you, etc. Insist on a direct answer.
Then If (sadly.. IF) his answer is "the marriage is more important", then ask him to prove it by talking to you Right Now.

Seems like putting it off, only made you feel worse.

So... dont put it off any longer? try again tonight. It's a tough thing to do... but you'll feel better after it is done with.

[Dom R]

PS: if you do decide to confront him with the "which is more important; prove it!" question, and IF he comes along with you...
dont expect him to be attentive and cooperative right away.

Sadly, he's probably going to be sulky, and initially not very cooperative about things. (basically, like a little boy who you've just taken away his "candy" from ) So you'll need to mentally be prepared for that, if it happens.
I would suggest that you give him a bit of time to adjust from the sulk while you talk, and then once he settles down a bit, then talk about the really important stuff.


No, you "shouldnt have to" go through all this. but in life you gotta deal with what you've got, not what you "should have", right?



ALso: I think that you absolutely have to drop any kind of pressure on him vs your daughter.
You have no influence on him! Bugging him about it, doesnt help, and only makes your relationship with him worse.

if you really want to help your daughter... FIRST, you have to make your relationship with your H strong. Strong enough that he finally gives a damn about what you think and say is important.

Then, and only then, could it do some good to talk to him about how he is treating your daughter.

[blindsided1]

Hi Ann,
Sorry to hear that you are having a rough time. I don't have any advice for you. I seem to be having a difficult time coping these days. It breaks my heart to hear that H is taking out his bad mood and, IMHO, his unhappiness on your D. She doesn't deserve that. Hang in there and I'll be thinking of you.

[ann25]

thanks dom...

You are right, i'm throwing myself a pity party... it's not a fun party, but I can't seem to leave. M shouldn't be like this. I shouldn't feel so very empty and hollow inside. I should feel loved. Of course i posted all that because i needed someone to tell me what to do. I know that's not the right attitude for someone trying to fix their m, but that's where i'm at... There's a whole lotta "i don't even care anymore" radiating from me right now. I will talk to him about what he sees as part of a Good Marriage... I know i need to talk to him and I will tonight.

last night, i was talking to my little sister while he played. My H got her H into this game, so now they are both playing online. I called her to ask her if she was having as much fun as i was. We laughed a little and hung up. Later H asked what that was all about. I told him exactly what was said and he said "well, you always used to like watching me play. It never used to be a big deal" He's right. It never used to be an issue. So i really thought about that and I realized it's not the game that's the issue. I don't mind watching him play most of the time. It's the sacrafice that he's willing to make for that game and his friends that he won't for his family. I don't even mind the time spent so much as i mind the fact that he still gets mad about things not getting done while he spends his time playing.

I don't know what i want from him. That's the problem. With the exception of wanting him to treat our girls with love and kindness, i don't know what i want. I just know i don't want to feel like this anymore and I don't know how to fix it. I know that i don't want to hurt and sit here an cry at my desk at work because i feel lost. How do i tell him what i want, when i don't even know.

I get what you say about working on my R with him first. I don't want my girls to get the impression that it's ok for a man who is supposed to love his wife to treat her like she's unimportant. Luckily, he's been so busy with his games that we haven't fought much. He hasn't said mean things or been hurtful. He's just been there. I do know that the ways little girls grow up with their fathers can deeply effect the way they look at future relationships. Love does not leave a little girl standing shocked and crying in the kitchen because she made a mistake. Love is firm, but supportive of her, explaining how not to mess up again and that accidents happen. How long do i let him treat her like that before I put my foot down and stand up for her?

sorry if that came out sounding really bad... it's been a rough day!

thanks again ann

[Tomato]

Hi Ann

I just wnated to stop by and say a quick hi.

Also, while I always have a high opinion of Dom's comments and suggestions. I am not a big fan of the idea of you putting your H on the spot by directly asking him what is more important- your M or his gaming. I see that as a lose-lose. I figure he will brush that question aside in a heartbeat and maybe even pretend he didn't even hear you ask it.

I had the thought and was wondering whether or not you And H ever get the chance to have family or a sitter watch your D's so that you would have alone time to accomplish this very necessary talk?

I am praying for you and hope you are physically, spiritually, emotionally well.

[ann25]

thanks tomato - i am sincerely hoping Dom didn't mean for me to just walk up and ask him to make a choice. Like i mentioned in my post above, i don't even know how much i care about the games. I think the conversation will be more about what he thinks a good healthy M should be and how he thinks we are doing. My best guess, he's not going to see a problem with how things are. He's really big on not sharing and hiding emotions, so we'll see how that goes.

I did call my sister and ask her if she would be able to take the girls out for a couple hours, but she hasn't gotten back to me, so we'll see. Otherwise, it will be an "after bedtime" talk...

Physically, i'm doing ok. Just getting more tired and achy. just over 5 weeks left now. Spiritually i'm doing ok. Just trying to lean on God and pray when I'm feeling like I am now. Emotionally, I've been better. Just kinda feeling empty inside... the only thing that really effects me anymore is my babies.

[sandi2]

I don't know what i want from him. That's the problem. With the exception of wanting him to treat our girls with love and kindness, i don't know what i want. I just know i don't want to feel like this anymore and I don't know how to fix it. I know that i don't want to hurt and sit here an cry at my desk at work because i feel lost. How do i tell him what i want, when i don't even know.

Oh Ann........that breaks my heart and it sounds so familiar. As a mother, I think I can identify with your concerns about his role as a father. Right now, he isn't being a father or a husband b/c he is so addicted to those video games. That is the biggest problem I see right now and until he sees it and stops what he is doing......the problem is not going to get much better. It would be the same if he was addicted to gambling. He doesn't want you, the girls or anyone or anything to interfere with his time on the computer games. It is an addiction!! I personally think he needs help.

Now, the way he shows disrespect towards you in public is unacceptable and I would let him know that in no uncertain terms. It is a by-product of his feelings of the MR and he is taking advantage of your "helplessness" in a public surrounding. Don't "allow" him to treat you this way!

I can understand where you are coming from when you said he wanted 100% assurance that you would give your all to the M and if not then he wanted a D. Whereas we (as women) see it that he should be the one trying to put 100% into the R since you told him that ILYBINILWY speech. Why would he not try to change in order for you to fall in love with him again.....right? In the meantime, he is selfish and goes and buries his head in a computer game and forgets his problems.....to the point of mistreating the children. That is what really ticks me off....what he is doing to those little girls. I can't agree with some other advice about you can't help what or how he treats the girls but that you just need to work on your R with him! It is probably true that if the two of you had a better R then hopefully he would take up more time with the kids, but how do you know that at this point? It sounds to me that he is too involved in these games. You have to think of what psychological effects it is having on the girls. If they are crying for his attention.....that is a really bad sign.

Is there a Pastor or a counselor.....somebody that can help you? Would he even consider seeing somebody? I don't know why I asked that question when I already know the answer!

(((Ann))), I wish I could help sweetie, but I'm here to listen anytime. I am so worried about all of you. I am probably going against all of the DB rules here, but if he continues in his path that he is on now, if there is somewhere you and the girls could go (like to your parents?) for a couple of weeks or more.....maybe it would wake him up. I don't know, but something needs to shock him enough to get his head out of those games long enough to see what he is doing to his family! I just don't think all the responsibility should be on the shoulders of the W to make everything in the M work! I've been down that path before. Men have to step-up and take their share of the work in the M.

Take care sweetie.

Sandi