Something has happened that has answered some very important questions for me.
i staill am not exact ly how to put it to words, so please forgive me but i am just going to free write this entry. three days ago i missed my morning dose of wellbutrin and xanex which is really not a good thing for me to do. apparently they really help with keeping my mind straight and focussed. when i got home from work that eveningi was grumpy and grouchy. i wasn't mean, i don't think (you will have to ask sam) and was in such a foul meed that i could have been told i had been given a fully rstored 1968 nd a half, limited edition chevy camaro super-sport with a 302ci chevy engine engine (yes motorheads out there, chevy made a 302 because ford's 302 was beating chevy's 350s at the time) and i still would have found something wrong with it.
sam was asking me something and my answer was curt (but still not impolit). she asked what was wrong and i explained about the med situation. she started to cry and continously apologizing for her affairs. all of her sentences were disjointed and difficult for her to get out, but here is what was disclosed:
she said she never realized just how much the suicide of a patient affected her. she said she liked the man very much (nothing more) and was just beginning to realize how involved she was in his case.
so he kills himself while in a drunken stupor. sam now thinks his death is her fault. she cried and cried over and over saying she should have done more or sent him to a batter therapist. she blames herself. that's quite a burden. i know my wife. experienced or not in dealing with what the guy was going through, i am certain she did a great job. she is so caring and intuitive and good at being a psychologist that i know in my heart of hearts that man received the best care he could have. i told her that he was probably already decided to kill himself before starting therapy. i've researched this before (for a book i want to write someday) and when i was extremely depressed in my twenties i too went to that edge. i know what he felt. there was nothing she could have done. nothing. he would have done it no matter who his therapist was. he wasn't there to be saved, he was there to tell his story to an understanding ear. he was there to find on person to care about him. he was there to find someone who would mourn his death. not that his remaining members of the family wouldn't mourn him, but in his world, they had their chance to save him and they couldn't or didn't. it was only a matter of time. it wasn't her fault nor is she even slightly responsible for it. if anything, she should feel comforted knowing that she helped make his last months of life more bearable. poor woman.
she continued to cry and cry, just blurting things out, and she said she didn't know that she didn't want to be a therapist and that it was draining her. she was becomeing weaker and weaker as she lost confidence and the mentors she had just didn't seem to care. either that or they were grossly inadequite at being mentors. the men she had affairs with were sexual predators. they sensed her weakness and pushed her a little here or there to make her weaker.
as she continued to cry, she blurted "i didn't want to say no. i didn't want to hurt them. i didn't want to fail them" which to me means she was terrified that if she didn't follow their lead, they might do something drastic, possibly suicide.
i think this is the cornerstone to the whole problem. i sensed it but was never able to put it in words enough to understand. i knew the man's suicide is what started her distancing herself from my. she pushed for us to get life insurence and every now and then would say she was afraid i was going to die. so, to protect herself, she laid down that conestone and built the wall that seperated us. as she pulled away, i felt neglected and did the same. so here we were, each of us trying to discover the root of our unhappiness yet doing so independant of one another. the gap grew.
this isn't to say that all of the reasons she has given in the past do not have their place in all of this. quite the contrary. it all just adds up.
i think i am beginning to understand. i admitted last night that i thought i had, but i still haven't forgiven her for turning her back on me. but this new info will help with that.
Sad, SAM, this makes a whole lot of sense to me! Isn't it amazing and a little creepy how unconscious/implicit feelings, thoughts, burdens can influence our conscious decisions?
Freud had something after all!
Talk about an "emotional insight" moment!!! Way to go, both of you!
sorry, all. i miss everyone too. it will take a while, but i will catch up to everyone's threads asap.
things have been difficult. i stopped posting because it became impossible to say what was on my mind with sam also reading what i wrote. she isn't going to come back to the boards for a while and she promises not to read what I write.
i was laid off. got a new job, but it is overnight. the market sucks for techies right now. i also was in the hospital for a coupla days for plerosey (sp?). i now have an inflamation in the cartledge beneath my ribs (feels like i have six broken ribs - no kidding). and we are moving on halloween.
docs say they do not know what causes the inflamation (costochondritus sp?) and there isn't much that can be done except rest. it's not an infection and they will not prescribe anything more than ibuprofin. blech.
as far as my marriage goes, i cannot help it but i am still unable to forgive. honestly, i am here for the children, not much more. i know sam is sorry, but...she hurt me so much that i am not sure i can get past it.
and now we are buying a house.
her ex lover is continuing to sue me and we are now going to trial. maybe i should beat him up again...
what sucks is that i felt i was doing a good job of saving the marriage, until i received the letter saying i had to go to trial. now, everything is being dredged up again and i realize that i haven't stopped hurting. i certainly haven't come close to forgiving her.
i read books about forgiving...i read the bible about it...and i still cannot find my way to do it. and now, i am beginning to resent that i have to! my sense of what is fair is being assaulted. and if i cannot forgive, what kind of christian am i? i really am not a very good christian to begin with, and this makes me doubt even more.
i have been reading about adult children of alchoholics (acoa) and i see how much divorce screws up children...i don't want my children to hurt that way! but i don't want to stay in this relationship. i don't know what to think or do anymore. i hate this and i hate being in this position. i hate what she has done. i am so f-n tired.
Thanks for updating us. Sorry to hear that things are still very difficult for you...legally and with m. I DO hope that you decide to post more regularly...maybe we can help somehow?
As for the forgiving...well, I know how hard it is. and it's hard for me not to get frustrated (with myself, with h) when I find myself up against another block of resentment and anger...but, it takes A LONG time...and it's not easy so I try to forgive MYSELF too.
Do you think that you would be acting differently if you HAD achieved forgiveness? Like...if you sat down to make a list of actions....things that you would do (or not do) if you HAD forgiven...towards SAM, towards your kids, towards yourself...what would that list contain?
What if you wrote that list...in excrutiating (and action oriented) detail...then...what if you decided to STOP TRYING to forgive...and do the things on the list anyway?
In other words...really and truly give yourself a break from trying to forgive...say to yourself..I will revisit my "forgiveness level" in 6 months on X/XX/XX. Until then...I will not consciously try to forgive...but I WILL (Sad pulls out list) do the following things even though I haven't forgiven.
Does that make any sense?
I hope to see you around more...
Sage
PS I know you said you've read books on forgiveness...my favorite has been "The Art of Forgiving" by Lewis Smedes. It was comforting in that it dispelled quite a few misconceptions that I had been telling myself...
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
SAD!!!! My dear, dear, friend!!! SOOOOO great to hear from you...even if the news itself could have been better
I have to back up Sage here. SAD even I have not yet "forgiven" CJ for what he did. I don't even THINK about it anymore. I just go on each day, in a way as Sage has suggested, "as if" I've forgiven. Who knows, perhaps one day I'll wake up and realize I HAVE forgiven.
CJ will be the first to know!
I also REALLY think that the other stressors: Job, new house, the TRIAL...are SEVERELY impeding your ability to "put this all behind you".
How can you when it's still very much, very publicly ALIVE???
But SAD, although it seems like WAY too much for any one person to take, these external stressors WILL PASS.
I don't think it's even reasonable to expect yourself to be "over it" or to "forgive" until much more time, much more evidence of faithfulness and committment had come to pass.
Please come back and post. We're here to help you through this rough time.
Thank you both for your immediate and helpful posts. It helps to hear that this is a VERY LONG process and that I probably should forgive myself for thinking I should have already forgiven her. I have dates in my mind that I do not look forward to the annaversaries; dates that I know what she was doing this time last year. I feel guilty for wanting revenge against those who would come between a couple. I hate people who cheat on their wives...which then becomes "I hate people who cheat." Which then becomes, "I hate my wife for cheating." But then I realize that I don't hate my wife, but I don't trust her and I don't love her as I once did.
And I don't know what to do.
Sage, your list idea is exactly what I need to do, but I honestly am struggling with what to put on it. I don't know what I would be doing differently if I had forgiven her, I just know I would feel better somehow.
Many years ago, I was terribly in love with a girl...she broke my heart. Years later, after college, we grew to love each other again...then she slept with her preacher. Broken heart all over again, not to mention a real dislike of religion. I look back now, after 15 years, and I know I forgive her. I don't love her any more than I would a distant friend, but I forgive her, and that makes me feel good. I can't wait 15 years to forgive sam and I fear that being seperated is the only way to do it, just as it did before.
This is so wrong and unfair! I deserve better. I don't want to take the easy way out and go start a new relationship elsewhere, but I can't help wonder why I haven't. It would be less work and more enjoyable at this time. If I had a little more self confidence and believed I wasn't a bad looking guy, I probably would just go. And take the children with me.
But back to the list, Sage. What did you put on yours? I am in such a fog I simply cannot see what should be on my list.
And you are correct Shiny, the added stressors: job, new house, the TRIAL...do SEVERELY impede my ability to "put this all behind [myself]." In fact, the docs say the stress is what is causing my whole chest/rib thing. And I definitely need much more evidence of faithfulness and committment on her part.
Love to you two, and thanks for being here for me. Be well.
