Hope4us' Struggle, part 2

[Puppy Dog Tails]

One more question Pup. You said in your sitch that once your kids found out that it was pretty much the end of your W's affair. How long did it take?

I guess what I'm thinking is DS16 will not let up on her, so even if she's in contact now, don't you think it will weigh heavily on her mind there by ending the affair sooner rather than later (if it's not over already?)?

I exposed to my adult daughters on May 27th, and her parents, OM's parents, and their mutual employer over the next two weeks. It was not until late-August that my wife agreed to end her affair, and enter into no-contact and transparency, the terms of which we continued to wrestle over for another month or so, but which she finally did. She backslid once, about a month in, and proactively came to me and admitted it and begged forgiveness, and I granted her the "one strike" that I had predetermined that I would tolerate.

There has been no contact since, at least not that my intel uncovered.

[saffie]

Hope,

I don't think I have commented on your thread before but I have been reading along. When my children heard about their dad's A, my second eldest D contacted the OW by phone. Unknown to either myself or my H. It really threw OW to hear what my D thought and was a big part in getting her to agree to back off. Having a 13year old crying down the phone does sometimes prick a conscience. It sure made more of an impact than I did.

My H was also VERY shocked by what the children thought of what he had done and it made a difference to him. having said that, I was very clear that I did not want my H staying JUST because of the children.

BTW, I have to say I agree with puppy about your W - the way your thread reads it looks like your W is doing the minimum to keep you where it suits her best. Please watch out.

[Hope4us]

Thanks Pup, Saffie. I hope I've not given the wrong impression in my posts since Friday. Let me post where I'm at and you guys can let me know what you think.

CHEATERS LIE. I know that very well. Do I think WW is being truthful with me that she told OM she couldn't talk to him again? Not in a million. Do I think it matters at this point? Maybe, maybe not. And I'll tell you why. OM is a serial cheater, but he's not stupid. OMW told me that she thinks he's already got another one lined up in the town he lives in now. Why would he want to waste his time with WW when she's so much trouble (including her STD)? Friday night WW said some things that confirmed he wasn't too happy about that being exposed to him. OMW is going to divorce him. When they divorce, do you think he's going to want the kind of pressure that WW would put on him for more and more? I just don't see that. If he wanted to be married, he would just do what his current W asks of him and avoid the child support and alimony she's going to take him for.

But that's not really what matters from my side. What matters is my WW's ACTIONS. I will be watching her like a hawk. She already passed the first test. I went home for my mom's 77th birthday party and DS16 went to a concert and then spent the night with the guys he went with. If WW was going to arrange a meet with OM, it was the perfect opportunity. He could have came up here and there was no way I'd have ever known. But when I got home yesterday morning, there were no miles on her car other than the exact mileage that she would have from driving DS16 to the concert meeting place and then to pick him up in the morning. So there's one thing that she's proved to me she's doing what she says. Only 7,248 more of those to go before I begin to trust her again.

Then there's our kids. They have both told her (more so DS16) that if she ends up with this loser at any time there won't be happy holidays at her new home. DS16 told her that if she continued talking to him he would have nothing to do with her. Does that mean she's stopped now? Maybe, maybe not. But it has to weigh on her everytime she does, if she is.

So....again, actions, not words. And yesterday while I was driving home from my mom's house, I really figured out, I'm pretty much done with her. If she wants to waste her life and her kids lives, I don't really care. I can't make her do anything. And if this is the kind of person she's become, I really don't want to be with her anyway, so it's up to her. She either shows me by her actions that she's trust worthy or I'm outie when the time comes.

Thinking on a more positive note, Her moods have been all over the place. Like I mentioned, Friday we talked like we haven't in a long time. Saturday morning and after she got back from shopping she was pretty up, but then last night when I got home she was pretty down. Layed down on the couch, ready for bed by 7:00. Was very quiet and didn't say a whole lot to me. I guess that indicates to me that NC may be in place. Her moods the next couple of weeks will probably go a long ways towards me believing whether or not she's being honest with me on the NC.

Like you said Pup, it took a while for your W to agree to your conditions after exposing to your kids, etc. And I'm going to keep up the pressure for the things I need to move forward, but I figure if she's being honest about ending it with OM (and that's yet to be determined) that only one week from her saying that she has ended contact is really too soon to expect much from her. But I will keep after that. Count on it.

One last thing, OMW has asked me if I'll testify at her divorce trial. I'm thinking I'm going to tell her I'd rather not, but if she supeona's me I don't have an option. I'm also going to tell her that we should probably quit talking unless its because either of us has evidence that WW and OM are still talking/getting together. That way OM and WW have no reason to be talking if she's serious about trying us. And I'm going to tell WW that very thing tonight. Tell her that OMW contacted me about testifying, that I told her I'd rather not and that I told her that we shouldn't be talking to each other anymore so my marriage can have the best chance to make it, but if I feel/know that she and OM are still talking I'll agree to testify and make OM's and WW's lives as miserable as I can. Of course, I won't say it that way, but she'll get the picture.

Comments please.....

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hope,

More later, as I'm buried today, but I wanted to comment on this:

One last thing, OMW has asked me if I'll testify at her divorce trial. I'm thinking I'm going to tell her I'd rather not, but if she supeona's me I don't have an option. I'm also going to tell her that we should probably quit talking unless its because either of us has evidence that WW and OM are still talking/getting together. That way OM and WW have no reason to be talking if she's serious about trying us. And I'm going to tell WW that very thing tonight. Tell her that OMW contacted me about testifying, that I told her I'd rather not and that I told her that we shouldn't be talking to each other anymore so my marriage can have the best chance to make it, but if I feel/know that she and OM are still talking I'll agree to testify and make OM's and WW's lives as miserable as I can. Of course, I won't say it that way, but she'll get the picture.

Comments please.....

I agree with the first part -- try to avoid it, but if you're subpoena'd, no, you don't have a choice. But don't reveal any intel to an adulterer. If your wife asks you direct questions, DO NOT LIE TO HER -- ever. But DON'T go offering up things like the second half of the above. You won't "get credit" for it anyway, and all you will have done is revealed some valuable intel and shown weakness.

Just my two (ok, three) cents.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Ok Pup, I'll be waiting. I hate it when work gets in the way of the boards.

But I question not telling WW about OMW asking me to testify. I see it as MORE pressure on the affair and by extension it will get WW thinking that SHE may be called. I'm definitely NOT going to say to WW that I'll never talk to OMW again, but she already knows we talk (so I would not be giving up any intel if NC remains in place) and I don't want to give her ANY excuse for ending NC with OM. I mean, she could pull the "you're talking to her, why can't I talk to him". Heck, if they weren't talking, they might be now because OM checks their cell bill almost daily (according to OMW) and he's probably seen that we talked Friday night so he's probably sent WW an email already saying so.

I just think it would be a way to difuse the situation and enforce to her that there's NO reason for them to be talking.

I just sent OMW an email saying I'd rather not testify, but if she supoena's me, I have no choice, but if she wants to call WW to testify, I'd join in the fun in a minute. How perfect would that be? WW having to sit there in court, looking OMW and her kids in the eye and tell them about the affair! Maybe then she'd wake up as to how her actions affected people.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hope,

Rather than saying "giving up intel," I should have said "don't make any ulilateral disarmament concessions."

Your wife is in NO position to ask for anything from you. "Expect nothing; give nothing" should be your motto at this stage. If she says "you're talking to her, why can't I talk to him", simply say "Because I didn't have an affair with her. I will do what I have to do to protect myself, and our family, and ensure that no contact is taking place."

I hear you saying a lot of "I think this affair is going to end" or "has already ended," and that's great. But please understand that a lot of my concern about "going wobbly" on her at this point is so that you bullet-proof your marriage. Serial adultery is very commonplace, and your wife's current boyfriend is ALREADY a serial adulterer. Yes, your immediate goal is busting up THIS PARTICULAR affair, but the greater goal is to "affair-proof" your marriage. Your wife's stubborn refusal to work the no-contact/transparency plan is a huge red flag in that regard, and I think you will greatly regret the concessions you're making.

Remember, you can always -- at any point -- go back to her and tell her you've reconsidered, and changed your mind. Completely your prerogative, and I would encourage you to do so.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

I know COMPLETELY what you're saying Pup.

I know I sound wobbly right now, but honestly I'm not. In our talk Friday night I told her I would give her some time, but we'd have to talk about HOW she let this happen, because I WILL NOT go through this again. I said to her she needed to look at herself and understand how she let her boundaries expand that let this affair happen, and that was when I saw some real emotion from her. Tears and everything. If she was faking THAT she should get an Oscar. And, I did get an apology of some sorts from her. She said in her nasty gram last Friday that she was "apologetic and a little broken". I know words mean NOTHING. But there's a whole lot of crap happening that makes me think if it's not over YET, it's in it's final pages.

Like I just posted on DMB's thread. I'm not giving up on the NC letter/transparency, but with it only being one week since I exposed to the kids, with her anger over that, I don't expect her to do ANYTHING I suggest for the time being. I just need to keep up the pressure on the Affair, in any way possible. And I picture our conversation about their divorce trial as another bit of pressure which will make WW see it for what it is. I mean, what do you think she's going to be thinking when she's on the couch tonight after I tell her that OMW is possibly going to call myself and by extension, her for that trial? That and the kids pressure and all, it's got to have an affect.

As far as intel with OMW. With OMW and OM living 1000 miles apart, her intel is limited anyway. I mean, he can do whatever he wants and she has no way of knowing about it. In fact, I provide her more intel than she gets from him. But a couple weeks ago they had a situation that makes her think that OM has another GF already, which is another piece that makes me think that he has no intention of connecting with WW. And if that's the case, WW will get pissed at him soon because he's not making the effort, if in fact she's still planning crap.

Make sense?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

And what happens when OM comes crawling back to your wife, telling her how FOOLISH he was to have hooked up with someone else, and how no one else has ever done it for him like she has, and how she's the only "true love" he's ever had, and generally says ALL of the things that pushed her buttons to begin with, then what?

I see your wife's remorse to be more of the "I'm sorry I hurt you" variety than of the "I genuinely realize that I did something very wrong," and I see your hope deriving way too much on what your wife currently feels (or doesn't feel) about this specific OM. And I think how she feels about him is deriving almost entirely on HIS moving on, be it for another woman, or disgust over your wife's STD, or feeling she has too much baggage, or some combination thereof.

That can WORK, but it can also be short-lived unless she addresses the root causes of her decision to have an affair.

We shall see.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

You're exactly right Pup. I agree, that right now her only remorse is that she got caught and maybe because she hurt me. But as crazy as it sounds because I know Cheaters have left their spouses, kids, everything for an OP, but WW and DS16 are very close and for him to lay into her like he did HAD an affect. Now she might not believe he'd never talk to her again, but I guarantee that she would not be able to handle the disapproval of her kids if she would get caught again. And this Thurs she has to go pick DS19 up from school and I can imagine it will be a fun conversation on the 2.5 hour drive home.

And I know how you could think that she's a prime candidate for another affair. And I agree. And I KNOW we will have to address the root causes of the affair. But that can't happen until she's at a point where she's ready. And she's not there only one week post exposure to the kids. Thing is, where I'm at right now, I only hope for us to have a chance, for the kids. Because, for me, I could give a rats a**. But if I'm going to give this a chance for the kids, she's going to have to see me in a somewhat good light before she'll be ready to commit. Not a WEAK light, but a good light.

Don't worry about me. I came home from my mom's yesterday, HATING her. It would only take one slip up and I'm on to the other side.

[Hope4us]

Saffie if you're still reading and Pup, got a question for you. DS16 has told me a number of times that he wants to call OM and let him have it.

What do you think of that idea? WW would be pissed that I gave DS16 the number, but who cares. Saffie, I know you said that had a big impact on your H. What do you think about that? Would I just be using my kids? Don't want to do that, but at the same time it could allow him a chance to get some of his frustrations out.

Don't know if I'm seriously thinking about it, but I was just re-reading some posts on my thread and yours Saffie jumped out at me.