No snooping for 2 days now, and no confronting. I've pledged to myself (and this thread) not to snoop until Saturday, at least. We'll see.
Actually, I don't think you had a backslide at all. You acted with plenty of restraint. Personally, I think that if your H is going to have an after hours discussion with the OW, he owes it to you to volunteer what it was about, without you having to ask. And if the subject was about anything on a personal level, then it was inappropriate. Just like I think my W owes it to me to volunteer what she's been up to for the 3 1/2 hours between taking my son to kindergarten at 11:30 and picking up the boys from school at 3 every day (which was often when she'd see the OG). I try not to ask, and she rarely volunteers, unless it comes out in the course of normal conversation. Why don't they see how important this stuff is to us, and how easily they could put to rest our fears, and let us happily move on to something else? I don't know. They seem to feel just as entitled to their privacy as ever, and feel stifled and awkward about doing the simple things that would reassure us. I don't get it, but from reading other threads, it seems to be very common.
I do think that their guilt is a part of it. They don't want to think about the A, and they don't want you to think about it. So, they think that the best thing to do is to ignore anything related to it, or minimize it, and it'll go away faster. What they don't consider is that this behavior only feeds our obsession with it.
Take heart that your H fessed up about it (even if he didn't give many details) and that, in his own way, he tried to make it up to you with the sweet text message. I think it's still going to be awhile (if ever) before my W says her 1st ILY to me since January.
I don't think the jeans thing is significant. I too have come to the office on my days off and tend to dress down on those days. I think that my mind works the same way as yours these days, though. The worst interpretation about everything that happens is the interpretation that I can't get out of my head. If you are like me, then you probably can remember plenty of recent times in which you thought the worst only to later find that you were completely mistaken, and there was an innocent explanation.
You are in a very tough situation, with your H having to see her every day, and all of your panicky thoughts seem to me very rational and reasonable, even though you know that it is unlikely that he is continuing the A with her. I'm probably a bad one to ask - I'd probably be snooping like 007!
Thanks for the "nice guy" comment. You really made my afternoon.
Hi Bri, The only thing h did say about the conversation was that it was about crap at the resturant (who knows) I just couldn't bring myself to ask any further. I some days wonder what I am doing don't get me wrong ILH but this is never going to quit haunting me, so afraid it could happen again. You know the saying once a cheat always a cheat. I'm sure that is not the case for everyone. I hope we are within that catagory. (You & I) I really feel like I need to talk and tell h how I feel not nesessarly R talk or OW talk, h dosen't even have to respond, just to let h know how I feel, but I really don't know how that would go over to well. It stinks that I feel like I walk on egg shells all of the time. I know the whole jeans thing is crazy & I wish I could get stupid thoughts out of my head like that. As far as me snooping that has stopped although I will check the cell phone bill when it comes in in a couple of days (it's in my name) & I do all the bills. I know I shouldn't but I really need to know if h called h at all. I'm hoping my gut is right (that h hasn't) it's that whole trust thing. Keep up the good work w your DB'ing, I really have to work at it everyday too, I think it will be a for life thing. Some days I don't think I do so good. Have a good night. ~~K~~
Quote: Why don't they see how important this stuff is to us, and how easily they could put to rest our fears, and let us happily move on to something else? I don't know. They seem to feel just as entitled to their privacy as ever, and feel stifled and awkward about doing the simple things that would reassure us. I don't get it, but from reading other threads, it seems to be very common.
I think the answer to this one, from reading many posts from wayward spouses, is that in most cases, they simply don't care (about you, your feelings, etc.). They are wrapped up in their own idealized fantasies about the OP, their own suffering in the M, and self-pity about having to give up the OP, and have little thought left for you. I think with time and the right approach from the BS, which includes our compassion and understanding (unfair, but necessary), the WS will start to come around. Hey, it's been 8 months since d-day for me and my W is still not fully recommitted! But hang in there - there are signs of improvement here and there and I'm sure with all your hard work, you will continue to see some positive changes as well.
Quote: I do think that their guilt is a part of it. They don't want to think about the A, and they don't want you to think about it. So, they think that the best thing to do is to ignore anything related to it, or minimize it, and it'll go away faster. What they don't consider is that this behavior only feeds our obsession with it.
It took me a long time to realize this. The unfortunate part is that you can't MAKE her see what she's doing to you. You can only say what you want, then act like the kind of man she'd really like to spend her life with. If she chooses to reinvest in your M, she will probably want to help you work through the issues surrounding the affair.
Beware though - if your W reaches that point, it doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be more setbacks. My W was willing to go to counseling and we did for 5 months, once per week. She answered all my questions about the As, and I've definitely benefitted from the sessions and the understanding of the reasons behind her choices. But that still leaves us with the underlying issues in the M, and those will take much longer to solve, so I continue to DB. My W is now teetering on the brink of choosing separation, so setbacks will happen for some time during your recovery.
On snooping - congratulations on your efforts to stop! Believe me I know how difficult it is. Let me know how it goes. Make sure you note what effect reducing your investigations has on your W for future reference in your DB efforts.
Is your H open to reading books or reading on-line about M and R stuff? If he's like my W, then he's not. I keep thinking that if I could just get my W to participate in MC or in reading After the Affair or DB, or in reading on the MarriageBuilders website, that she would really start to understand what it is I'm going through, and how she could help me through it. I keep thinking of how some of the things that would provide me with the greatest reassurance would be so easy for her to do, if she would just decide to do them (this whole new cellphone thing notwithstanding). In your case, I think your H owes it to you to go the extra mile to reassure you, especially because of his daily contact with her. If only he could/would put himself in your shoes.
Things last night were OK. W was again affectionate. At the same time, though, she seemed a little tense and distant. She said something about not feeling well because she's starting her period, but of course, I suspect that it may be something else (didn't ask).
Over the last few months, I have often wanted to cuddle up close to my W as we are going to sleep (we never used to do that, one of my failings, I think, but it's something that I really do like to do now). When I first started doing it, she would often get annoyed by the gesture, and by how it disturbed her sleep (she's big on sleep). Later, she started being more OK with it, but has really never expressed wanting to cuddle with me. Well, last night, I started to cuddle up next to her. She said that she was uncomfortable and wanted to lay on me (halfway). So we ended up going to sleep with her head on my shoulder, and her arm around me. It felt great. Even if she may have been doing it mainly for her own comfort, I know that she was also doing it because she knew it would make me happy. I'm starting to see signs that she is doing things like that, just to make me happy. There's maybe starting to be a little effort on her part. Hope that continues.
One other nice development: We were able to find babysitting (her B and SIL) so that we can go alone on a quick 2 day trip to Vegas at the end of June. I so much want that trip to be a great one, but I know that I'll need to keep my expectations reasonable. My W seems reasonably excited to go. I had suggested such a trip a few months ago, but she had reacted badly to that. So her attitude now is definitely an improvement.
No snooping now for 3 days. The cellphone thing is definitely on my mind a lot. Not being able to trust is a terrible thing to have to live with. It's really hard to reconcile what I know (the cellphone) with what appears to be (more affection and other good "signs" from her).
Sorry to hear about your setbacks and that your W is still considering a separation. Do you think it's mainly related to the OG, or being married at all, or what? It's a long road back, I guess, after an A. Sounds like you are still doing all the right things, and have the right attitude though.
Thanks for your words of wisdom and encouragement. I can always tell that you've given these issues a great deal of thought.
I'm reasonably sure that the OM is out of the picture now, so I'm not really worried that she will be leaving me because of him. At this point, she's just not sure if she will ever be "in-love" with me again. Of course, she's still here, and I think her actions speak louder than her words. She's still conflicted, and I'm still DBing. I've achieved some peace with her As and my role in the destruction of our M. I also know that I've turned myself around completely, I'm happy with my changes and I do not fear returning to my former bad habits. I've also realized that there is really nothing else I can do at this point - she must make her choice and we will both have to live with that decision. I hope she chooses to stay, but if she leaves I will move on. It will be difficult of course, especially since we have a 2 year old son in the equation, but I know I can be happy without her if that is what must be. When I first started DBing, I had to act as if things would be okay either way, but now I really believe it. Perhaps she will notice that difference too. I hope so, but again, the pressure is off and the proverbial ball is now in her court.
I wouldn't necessarily call my words "wise", but I'm glad if you can use my experiences to your benefit.
Hi Bri, No my H wouldn't read anything. 1. Not enough time . H just doesn't like to read. So I wouldn't even ask. My H went out after work last night to shoot a game of pool & have a beer w a ex co worker(of course I was in a panic) even though h told me what h was doing. H was even home earlier than I had expected. Still hard not to panic though. But the good thing is tomorrow is our Anniversary (h has to work) but I am going down to meet h around the time h should be close to getting done. My big thing is the OW going to be working (I am curious)& I do want h to see me there. I would kind of like to rub it in her face. (that's bad huh?) I want h to know I am not going anywhere. But I am very nervous about the whole thing. I don't think my H would want me to stop down if h was still doing something. Do you? Well way to go no snooping that's great. And believe me I know it's having it's toll on you. Your trip sounds great (I wish) so go have a great time, I think you guys need that. Even though things are going slow on the cuddling & ILY things seem to be going quite well for you. I know this all seems to be going so slow in alot of ways. But you have made some great progress. I also did another good thing today my H got mad the kids were acting out (of course somehow it was my fault) I wanted to yell back & say a few things & thought better of it rather than to cause an even bigger arguement out of it, I let it slide right off my back. Then after that things were fine until h had to go to work. So I think I made a good choice. I guess you have to learn which battles to choose. Well gotta go I will be on later tonight after the kids go to bed. (I have some peace then) I hope to here from you & your thoughts about tomorrow night. ~~K~~
You sound like you've got it together, no matter what happens with your W. I haven't gotten to the point where I've given much thought as to whether I could be happy without my W. I suppose I could be, but man, the devastation that would result is almost unthinkable. The people who know us (including the kids, family, neighbors, and friends) would be utterly shocked. The kids would have an awful time trying to recover. We've completely hidden the A, and have hidden our other problems pretty well. As for me, I'd ultimately be OK, I guess. I'd probably try to just be by myself for awhile. But I don't think that would last too long. I like being married, or at least with someone. I know that I can attract women, although the idea of starting the dating process from scratch does not sound like fun. Yikes. I think I'll stick with trying to get this M back on track!
