Hi Bri, I know what you mean about the highs and lows. My H used to send me so many mixed signals, I thought I was crazy. I am glad for you that your W broke it off. Try to trust in the fact that she did & meant it when she decided to be with you. It will be very hard we were hurt terribly & there is not much trust there if any, but if you want it to work you have to start somewhere. I had a hard time because I always wondered if they were still in contact especially since they work together. I still have days when I wonder why I am putting myself through this, because a part of me worries so much about this happening again since it already happened once. I have to force myself not to dwell on it, not that I'll ever be able to forget it just try not to dwell on it so much. Everyone makes mistakes in there lives although this a huge one pretty much unthinkable, I hope we can work through it & make things better. My H doesn't talk about it with me I think he just wants to forget it happened(understandable) and I don't really ask to much because I am not sure if I want to know things I think for me it would be to hard to hear the details. I know you also want to be intimate with your W it'll be hard, but try not to push to much, maybe plan a few dates together and have a good time & all will follow & come naturally for both of you. I surely hope all works out for you, they tell me patience is a big key. Let me know how you are doing. Glad to hear you returned safely from your trip. ~~K~~
dcr - I'll consider your advice about waiting for her to initiate sex. I have generally been the initiator throughout our M. I'm a little worried that if I let her lead, it won't happen, and that I'll resent her all the more for that. Still, wouldn't it be great if she did?
You are definitely in a tough situation, with your husband working with the OW. It would be very hard for me. I'd probably be a total snoopaholic (even knowing that it was the wrong thing to do). Thankfully in my case, my W could never see the OG again, if she follows through with her latest promise. My W, too, never wants to discuss the A, and I think I'm mostly past the stage of wanting to know many of the details. But I know she thinks about it a lot, and it's hard not to ask what she's thinking.
If I may ask some personal questions: how long was it after you found out about the A before you started having sex again? Who initiated? Is it starting to seem "normal" again?
I will try to do what you suggest, and plan a few dates. Our schedules clash over the next few weeks (I'll be working when she's not, and vice versa), but I'll try to figure out something.
Patience is difficult for me. I just want this whole nightmare to end. But it's either one nightmare (D) or another (the slow and painful process of restoring our R). Let's hope it's the latter, and let's hope it somehow turns into a sweet dream.
Hi Bri, Well we had been having sex the entire time, that was never an issue, My H usually initated it. It makes me sick because I didn't know what to do about anything because my H kept insisting there was nothing going on (just friends) the OW also insisted the same thing until the second time I called and confronted her because of something my H said, she admitted to having an EA with him but that they never slept together ( but at the end of the conversation she wanted to know the last time my H & I slept together) she claims he told her he hadn't slept with me since the end of Dec. so I started to wonder then. That's when I had finally had it & told my H I would be filing for D & that I didn't want him to come back. That's when things started to change he told me he didn't want that, he kept texting me and leaving me messages because I would not answer my phone(either one) It wasn't till about a month after we started to work things out that I asked if h slept w/ h & h said yes. I don't know why it came as such a shock, but it broke my heart. I swore that if my H ever did anything like that to me there would be no ? I would be gone, but here I am (I guess it's hard to throw 16yrs. down the drain) I just hope h doesn't think that if this would ever happen again it would be ok because I would take h back. I worry about that, I am a worrier I worry about things before they happen if they ever even do. Things seem like we are back on track, but I also worry that I will do something to send h running back to h. I still feel like I can't get mad or upset about anything, because it might end up in a fight & that was one of the biggest things my H said we fought everyday. Granted we were fighting because h wasn't coming home & because I wanted answers about his so called friend. I don't know the only thing I know is that this is so hard and it is a nightmare to put it mildly,I will never be able to forget this I forgave h but it will never leave me, & the trust issue I think will take a very long time. You are very luckly your W does not work w/ the OG it is very nerve racking, but I can't ask my H to quit because h makes very good money there & has been there for along time, if he went somewhere else h wouldn't start out making as much, we can't afford that. I also know what you mean about asking what they are thinking. I just ask if something is wrong or did h have a bad night if h chooses to talk to me about whatever ok, I don't ask about the details of the A because now I am to the point where I don't want to know because I don't think it would do the M any good, because it would constantly be on my mind. Does it look to you like your W has ended it? Can you see any evidence without asking to much or snooping? I know patience will be hard for you but try, because I often think your probably not any happier if you are D. Like I said you and only you know how you feel & what you want. Let me know how things are going, I'll be thinking of you. ~~K~~
I know exactly what you mean about how you can't get upset about anything, walking on pins and needles in order to not get into a fight. It's amazing how we are the ones who have to do all the real R work, while the spouses who had the affairs get to just sit around feeling sorry for themselves, and pining for the OP. I hate that. I think my W is less sorry now than she was when I first found about the A.
Last night, she basically accused me of having affairs throughout our 8 year M. She seems to think that every moment that I have not accounted for my time, every business trip I've been on, etc, have been spent chasing other women. I couldn't believe my ears. She has always been a suspicious person, but I didn't know to what extent. I have always been faithful to her during our M, although I broke up with her for a few months while we were dating, and dated another woman during that time. Now I think she is justifying her A on the basis of her suspicions. My denials mean nothing to her. She says that she never tried to get real proof of my "affairs" because she didn't really want to know the truth. So, she just stewed about it for years, never confronting me about her suspicions. I wish she had hired a private detective. She would have found that nothing was going on.
I don't know if she is telling me the truth about not being in contact with the OG. I suspect she is. I do think she is not seeing him, which is something.
She is very bitter about me and how I have supposedly been during our M. I know that I have a lot of things to work on. But I still claim that things weren't that bad. And there are many things I could complain about, about her, if I wanted. She apparently has never forgiven me anything that I have ever done wrong. I really don't understand it. Somehow, I really think that I need to find a way to get her to see a M counselor with me. She has pretty much refused to see one so far. I'm starting to really doubt that we can get over this by ourselves.
Kim, thanks for your help. As you can tell, I'm not having a good day. I truly hope that your H stays true to you, and that your M stays intact. It sounds like it is worth saving.
Well, since I started this thread with a lot of questions about ever being able to have sex again with my W, given all that I discovered about her A, I thought I'd let everyone know about the 1st time we had sex since that terrible day 2 1/2 weeks ago when I found out.
After having a bad Saturday (see my previous post), we had a nice Sunday together. I'm not sure why, exactly, but not discussing the R probably relaxed us both. It was so nice, in fact, that I woke up Monday morning feeling a little bold, and initiated. She responded (halleluia!). So how was it? A little weird, but not as much as I'd feared. She seemed very into it, which I was thankful for. Being able to please her made me feel like our M still has a chance, that I have some control. It crossed my mind that she could have been faking it. As far as I know she has not faked it in the past (but men never think that, right?) and I don't think she was in this case either, for various reasons. In a strange way, though, even if she did fake it a little, she did it to make me feel good, and so even that is a good thing.
I had worried that images of the OG, or them together, would completely fill my head, and eliminate my desire (and perhaps my ability) to have sex with her. Somehow, I mostly was able to avoid thinking about him. Sure, it was in the back of my mind, but it didn't completely wreck the experience. I was pretty much able to retain my focus, and that felt good. It felt good that he didn't have that power over me.
Overall, I'd have to say that it was nice. Straight, ordinary, no talking, little kissing. Not perfect, by any means, but not a bad start. It is good to have it done with, and not have to agonize over any more. I think it will get better from here, if our R improves.
Does it actually change anything? In some ways, yeah, I think it does. It feels more now like we are a couple (albeit, one that has some big problems), whereas before it had felt like THEY were a couple, and I was on the outside looking in. Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean that much to her (and I ain't asking!). I don't know that she won't contact him, or see him again. I don't know that she attaches the same importance to it that I give it. But it is something concrete, a milestone.
Other milestones yet to come: 1. She has not put her wedding and engagement rings back on. I think she will do this before: 2. The biggie. She has not said ILY to me since January. I think I'll break down one last time when and if she says it. That will be the thing that really let's me know that the worst is over, and that I can breathe again. That day will become a new anniversery for me.
The rest of yesterday was also fun. Had some friends over for a pool party. Went to bed tired and happy. Two good days in a row, and going for three (which would be a new record for us since D-day). I still worry. My W's feelings and moods are at least as unstable as mine. For the moment, though, I've stopped obsessing so much, and the future seems a bit more hopeful.
This board has proven to be invaluable. I hope you all will continue to share your thoughts with me.
Hi Bri, I am glad to hear things seem a little brighter. It seems like you are feeling a little better. I know how hard it is to let things go and try to get back what you had. Like I said I still have my good and bad days. Days when I panic over something said or done or even if my H is just a little distant, but I try to think positively. Very hard too. But I do LH even after all h has done. Keep doing what your doing. It'll take time. Smile it does wonders for you and everyone around you. Take care, ~~K~~
Yesterday was good, too. Three days in a row. We went in the jacuzzi after I got home from work, along with a couple of friends of hers. She actually came to sit in my lap for awhile and later sat beside me and put her hand on my leg. For most couples, that's probably just typical behavior. But for a long time it's been a rare thing for my W to initiate any physical contact with me. What a great feeling. I don't know how much stock to put in it; she may be forcing herself to do it even if she doesn't really feel like it. But still, it shows that she's making an effort.
You'd think that I'd feel more secure today. It's kind of funny. I feel good about the developments of the last few days, but not that much more secure. I guess I'm remembering all the times over the last few months when I thought things were going well with her while (I found out later) the A continued unabated. She's lied a lot, not just with words, but also by how she acted. For example, during her A, she would act happy and somewhat loving, at times, just so that I would be more agreeable to her going out with "her friends" (or so she said). So my insecurity now probably has a lot to do with not being able to trust that how she is acting reflects how she is feeling. I'm doing my best to believe her and not assume the worst. Like you I tend to panic whenever my W seems to be in a bad mood, says something critical, or is a little distant.
I'm also trying not to snoop. I think that just makes her more angry and perhaps more likely contact the OG, reasoning that if I think she's calling him anyway, she might as well just do it. Since she knows how I caught her in the past, she'd probably just start using other, more difficult to detect methods to contact him anyway. In the end, it just becomes a stupid game of spy vs. spy (did you ever read MAD magazine when you were a kid?), as the methods of evasion and detection become more and more complicated.
I hope your day has been a good one. I think that you must be a stronger person than you seem to give yourself credit for. First, you had the strength to ask for a D (and mean it), then you had the strength to let your H back in, and now you somehow have the strength to handle having your H still working with the OW. Do you ever think about what kind of person is able to do all that? A strong one, absolutely.
Well, the streak ended at 3 good days in a row. My W took her friend to the airport, and since the timing would have worked out perfectly for me to meet her near there after work for dinner, I called her to suggest it. She was in a bad mood and accused me of only wanting to have dinner with her as a way of checking up on her. My protestations to the contrary were shrugged off. Then, she was late coming home by about an hour. We argued. She said she had just pulled off the road and sat there, had not called the OG, but just wanted to p**s me off (it worked!). Did she actually call him? Who knows, but she certainly has a sense of entitlement. She said that she almost called him, since if I thought she was anyway, she might as well. This was just what I was afraid of, and one of the main reasons I have decided to stop snooping.
She still refuses MC and insists that we can do this on our own. I'm less hopeful. We often seem to be OK, and try to never let the kids see the real situation, but our mutual anger seems to be never too far from the surface. Why does she do this stuff that just tortures me? I really have no idea just what it was that set her off yesterday. It always is up to me to try to make sure that we talk it out, and it's always up to me to try to make it better. In the end, we agreed that I would try to not assume that she is in contact with him, and she would try to not assume that I am always checking up on her.
I have not been on this board in a long time but your sitch brought back some pretty vivid memories for me. Do a search if you want to see my old threads. I have been there and done exactly what you did. You are "reacting" just like I did and your W is "reacting" just like mine did.
Here is what worked for me (based on a lot of good advice from this BB). Don't try to stop what she is doing, you can't and she won't. It is the "game" that has her intrigued. Your job is to simply be the best husband, father, lover, friend, etc. that you can be while she decides what she wants to do. It is torturous but you don't have many options. Don't judge her but do tell her how what she does makes you feel (when the time is right). Be prepared though because she may not care how you feel. She is in a stage that simply must run it's course. She will either go or stay. Then comes the really hard part. If she stays, do you want her back? This is where I am at after running the whole cycle you are currently in. There are days where I feel very good about us and there are days that I think back and remember the pain and wish she was gone.
What worked in the end was a combination of things. My good friend told me that I needed to get my power back. What he meant was whoever loves the least has the power. So I started to think like the M was over and I had better become the best person I can be regardless of what my W does. I started to distance and work on me. That caused a fairly quick about face on her behalf. I am still in a similar mode. I love her but if she doesn't love me back I am done with her. I refuse to deal with the same thing twice. I am cocky by nature and have told her in no uncertain terms that if anything goes on remotely similar to the past I will physically harm the OM and kick her out of our home. It was not a threat and I am aware of the consequences. Right, wrong or otherwise that is how I feel. I told her this probably 3 months after the first ILY I got in 18 months. Timing is everything, I felt that way for 6 months but only expressed it once I had reached a comfort level. I know the violence part will be frowned upon by all but we gain maturity and wisdom everyday so hopefully I could stop myself.
I tell her how I feel all the time about most everything. I am a very up-front (transparent) person that feels it is only fair to let those around me know where I am coming from. You have to be very careful what you say right now around your W. Nothing will be understood the way you mean it and everything will be turned against you. There is a fine line between being a "doormat" and being an a-hole. Learn how to walk that line and you will be successful in saving your M. Too much to either side and it will be over in a hurry.
The best way to walk the "fine line" is not to "react". Plan your words wisely. I did not. My methods should not have gotten me to a positive result but I have always been lucky. Only in hindsight can I understand that I should have done what my advisors were telling me. It would have shortened the tough times immensely.
Our R is okay now and we love each other but I still struggle most everyday with the past and how I feel about it. Many times I wonder why I am still with her and other times I see my three little boys faces and I know they deserve to be raised by their M and D together so they learn how to do it. That makes me try very hard to put the past behind me work to be the best husband, father, lover, and friend that I can be.
It is a rough road but just take care of you and don't try to force anything. Their is a master plan in effect that will happen no matter what you do. That thought always made me feel a lot better.
