We talked more about how to be 'friends' and she said that she felt very guilty about how she has been feeling good while everyone else is feeling bad.
Hmmm...sounds familiar of late. Just a reminder about patterns and how people don't change without hard work. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
frank_d...with your permission please? You once used this phrase with me, 'toxic', while describing my W. Do you recall? You and I also discussed some issues about deciding when we are truly DB'ing and saving our M vs....are most of us codendent and using the hope for reconciliation as a form of denial? Food for thought:
Quote:
1. Love - Development of self first priority. Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.
2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow. Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)
3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships. Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.
4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth. Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.
5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.) Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."
6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together. Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.
7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality. Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.
8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality. Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.
9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood. Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.
10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.) Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)
11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship. Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.
12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone. Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.
13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment. Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.
Some more:
Quote:
It starts in early childhood with Fairy Tales where the Prince and the Princess live happily-ever-after. It continues in movies and books where "boy meets girl" "boy loses girl" "boy gets girl back" - the music swells and the happy couple ride off into the sunset. The songs that say "I can't smile without you" "I can't live without you" "You are my everything" describe the type of love we learned about growing up - toxic love - an addiction with the other person as our drug of choice, as our Higher Power.
Any time we set another human being up to be our Higher Power we are going to experience failure in whatever we are trying to accomplish. We will end up feeling victimized by the other person or by our self - and even when we feel victimized by the other person we blame our self for the choices we made. We are set up to fail to get our needs met in Romantic Relationships because of the belief system we were taught in childhood and the messages we got from our society growing up.
Quote:
Love is not supposed to be painful. There is pain involved in any relationship but if it is painful most of the time then something is not working. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - it is natural and healthy. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship that will last forever - expecting it to last forever is what is dysfunctional. Expectations set us up to be a victim - and cause to abandon ourselves in search of our goal.
If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson.
As long as our definition of a successful relationship is one that lasts forever - we are set up to fail. As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
frank...so am I...and I failed my first 'lesson'....FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Finally installed some programs I wrote under contract on a live service and the customer is happy. Took less time than I expected.
Interactions with W are still 'pleasant' but it bothers me, so I am withdrawing somewhat. I know in 'everyday DB' I should be open, outgoing, draw her closer, etc, etc, but I just don't think it's a good idea. See, she has never had to 'win me back' in previous break ups. Every time it has been me who 'makes it possible' for us to reconcile.
And every time I've lived in fear.
She doesn't even know what the status of our mortgage is. She doesn't ASK. She just assumes Frank will "fix it."
I just don't want that any more. I'm not mean, or cold, just polite, but detached.
Some might say that I'm pushing her away. Or She's 'reaching out' and I'm rejecting her. Maybe. But you know what? My W isn't my friend. If she wants to BE my friend she has to BE my wife. And to do THAT requires her to look at herself and her run away actions.
See, I wouldn't do to a friend what she has done to me, and worse, to our childrens life. So if she wants to be my friend, then she has to be my wife. And to do THAT she has to PROVE to me that she wants to be with me.
No more 'baby steps'. Love has to be tough sometimes.
Do I think she'll try? I don't really know. What I do know is that she isn't trying now - she's just attempting to get back into her comfort zone with me again. I don't want that. I want a wife, or I want to be alone. Choose one.
Will she? Which one?
Frank is worth fighting for. But she has always run from a fight.
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
______ is worth fighting for. But S has always run from a fight.
insert your name here, I have. Thanks frank for this gem.
I know it is hard to find the delicate balance as of how to behave towards the S who wants out, I fight with that every day, it makes me feel ackward when H is acting all fine and nice, just like when he's all serious and dry. Business acquaintance IS the best choice, because of kids we want to keep communication in working order. It is yet another everest we must go through Frank,and much like the others, we'll make it.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
went into W's room to get something out of the closet that I needed. Noticed that her jewelry box was on her desk and opened. Her engagement ring, wedding ring, and a couple other rings that were 'special' were missing. I also saw a note on the desk that said 'Jeweler' with a phone number.
Made me wonder how many WAW's sell their rings when they are 'done'. Don't know if that's her plan, just curious that they are gone. Maybe she's carrying them in her purse or something. Or hocking them for money?
Another note, she has actually started reading her 'how to get a divorce book' the past 2 days or so. It's on her bed and turned to about 10 pages past the place where it's been for months.
Does it mean anything? Nah. She did the same thing 2 years ago. Read the book, talked about filing, etc, etc.
Frank...these things are hard to 'read into'. Whatever she decides...whether it is to sell the 'sign of your fidelity' that you placed on her finger...or her reading along in the book of marital destruction...you have no control here.
There is nothing to analyze...or read into. Just take care of yourself. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
