Hope4us' Struggle, part 2

[Hope4us]

Use my notes all you want H4H. I don't know your sitch (I see this is your first post, why not share your story on your own thread and we'll help all we can), but there gets to be a point where you just can't take the disrespect any longer. And the funny thing is, when you get to that point and start enforcing your boundaries it gives you back some of your self respect that your wayward (w or h) has taken from you.

I know it will take me a long time to ever trust again, with my WW or with someone new and that's the part I absolutely hate about this. It's made me into someone I don't even know. And it will take a long time to find that person again, but it can't start until you have some respect for yourself and stop living your life through your wife. If she wants to come along, great, but if not, I'll be fine without her.

[GoingForward]

Your note does come across as unloving.....I think you need to do a little editing to indicate that.

Hi there, Hope4us.

I'm not familiar with your sitch, but I just wanted to chime in here and say that I agree with Puppy. However, I think the letter requires a LOT of editing.

I DO understand how angry and frustrated you must be with your W, but IMHO, if you're going to give her a letter, it should NOT be this one. At least not the way this letter is written. If I were your W, I would immediately become angry and defensive. You're pointing out EVERY SINGLE thing she is doing wrong - and remember, right or wrong, WASs do not like to hear it.

Your letter contains some statements that begin with "You, Your, You're", when they should begin with "I". They should be about how certain actions/choices of hers effect you.

Like this for example:

I've had you completely rub in my face your affair even after I discovered it. You have destroyed my confidence and made me question everything in my life that I knew and trusted and I WILL NOT stand for that any longer. You have lied to the kids and seem to be lying to them still by telling them you will try to make our marriage work when you can’t even agree to three simple things that would give us the best chance to save our marriage for US and for our family.

How can you rewrite this without coming off as pointing the finger and placing blame?

Hmm...Just an example here: "The blatant disregard, deceit, disrespect that this affair has brought into our M, into our home, onto our family is something that I will no longer tolerate. Our family is suffering tremendously, and I can no longer stand by and do nothing about it."

(((Hang in there.)))

[Starshyne]

Hope4Us...

I don't have a chance right now to read the latest updates and the new letter. But I was just curious, do you find that sending letters to be a lot more effective than talking in person? I notice that you have sent a lot of letters, do you think it might be time to change that up a little? Maybe not if you think it is working.

I don't think a letter would be effective in my H's life because he doesn't read letters that people send him in the mail.

Just curious...will read the new things when I have time later today, just quickly checking in at the moment.

Sara

[Hope4us]

Don't have time to reply Going but Sara, my counselor and I have discussed letters vs. in person and he feels, and I agree, that sometimes with the really heavy stuff letters, email etc can be better because it takes the pressure off the person receiving the communication to have to respond at that time. He likes letters etc because you get your point across and the receiver can have time to think about it without the pressure of me sitting there looking at her waiting for a response.

Also, I like letters/emails because I'm an emotional person and sometimes in the heat of the moment things can come out that I don't want to say, so by writing a letter I can carefully choose my words.

Apparently I've not done that very well with this latest letter. I'll have to rethink it although I am done trying to be nice about this. I've been nice for going on 8 months and all it's got me is her abusing my niceness the whole time. And I'm just not in a very nice feeling mood right now.

But I'll think about it. I've decided I'm not going to give it to her/send it to her until probably Monday anyway, so I've got some time.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Ok, Puppy, help me then. It may be too late for me. At this point I'm really thinking I don't even want to take the chance and make the effort that it will take. Like I said before, I've looked at the other side, and to be honest, it looks pretty darn good.

If I do decide I want to give her a sliver of hope that I may reconsider and give her a chance, how and what should I say?

In my note to her earlier this week I told her I still loved her and hoped she would come to her senses soon although I thought it was too late for that already. In this note I tell her that she must know this isn't what I want but her continued lies and deceit make me unable to care anymore. Thing is, maybe she needs to feel that I have lost my love for her to get her to wake up. And I'm not using that as a ploy, I really don't feel a whole lot for her. Last night she hardly said a word to me. I said hi to her when I got home and she just looked at me. She talked to DS16 in language that I think was meant to be her way of talking to me also, but nothing was directed at me.

So I just say WTF? Did she really end contact with the a-hole on Monday and she's feeling the affects of NC? Do I give her some more time? I feel like more of my life is slipping away and I'm doing more harm to the kids by giving them hope that there's a chance and right now the ONLY chance she has is to agree to my boundaries and show some real remorse, but she's still in the blame it on Hope4us mode as I'm the one that has caused all this and I'm just not willing to take it anymore. I mean, she said to me Monday night when I suggested a Retro weekend to work on our communications skills that she'd look at the website but it would be a long time before she went anywhere alone with me. Does that sound like someone that accepts responsibility for her actions and actually wants to work on the marriage? I told her in my note Monday that if she would write the NC letter that we could take the gloves off, have no R talks for a while and just spend time getting more comfortable around each other, and when I asked her Tues if she read my note she said "I read it and that's all I'm going to say tonight". Does that sound like someone who get's it and is really interested in trying to make our marriage work?

Hope4us,

I'm going to tell you some hard truths that I want you to consider. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Your wife is, most likely, not ready to show remore. She may NEVER show any remorse; many wayward spouses never do. You're going to have to decide if that's a dealbreaker for you.

Right now, you are NOT her friend. She doesn't like you very much (the good news is, she may very well still LOVE you, even if she doesn't show it very well). In fact, as sick as it sounds, she probably RESENTS you, for RUINING HER AFFAIR! You took away her fun, her "drug." It will help you if you understand her reactions in that light.

If she has, in fact, ended all contact with the OM, your wife is going to go thru HARD WITHDRAWAL for 2-3 weeks. She will have some days that she is kind to you, and she will have many days that she is devilspawn straight from the pits of Hell. Don't take it personally; it's "script."

TOTAL withdrawal may take as much as six months. If she has any contact with OM, at any point during that time (even if it's NEGATIVE contact), her "clock" will, in all likelihood, reset to "0:00:00" and you'll have to start the process all over again.

You are probably 3-6 months away from getting your emotional needs met by her in any significant way.

You're BOTH going to have a LOT of healing to do. It will require professional help, preferably from a pro-marriage MC who is specifically trained in issues of infidelity.

In her current state, "good mood" = "BAD", as she has probably been in contact with him. "Bad mood" = "GOOD".

You need to decide if you're ready for this. If you're not, I completely understand. Your OWN feelings for your wife CAN come back, if she does the work. Don't take how you're feeling right now as your true indicator of your love for her.

IF you want to take her back (and it's certainly reasonable that she should have to meet the terms you've laid out), you DO have to give her more than a "sliver of hope." In fact, she very much needs to know that you have a PLAN.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

P.S.

EDITED to add " . . . that you have a PLAN for the recovery of your marriage."

[Hope4us]

I understand all that Puppy. I get that WD will be hell. I know it will take her 3 or more months to really meet any of my needs, and I'm prepared for that. But if she won't agree to a NC letter and to get rid of her affair baggage how am I supposed to believe she's serious about the affair ending and trying to make us work?

If she would send the NC letter and get rid of the pictures, notes, Victoria's Secret stuff I've told her that we can put any R talks on hold for a while and just begin to get comfortable around each other again. But if she won't at least agree to NC letter, how can I trust that she's telling me the truth?

Should I just say to her, Ok, I'm going to trust that you did say to OM that you can't see or talk to him again, but if you do I'm divorcing you? If she won't agree to a NC letter and periodically contacts him (which I have no way of verifying whether she does or not) the we could be in this holding pattern for YEARS and never have a chance at saving our marriage. She could just say in two years, see, I told you I didn't love you and it wouldn't work and what do I say then? Have you had contact with OM? And she lies and says no and then what? I've wasted two years of my life chasing a dream that I have no hope of obtaining.

I've never said I don't love her. I've said that I just am at the point where I don't think that me loving her is enough for me to put up with the pain and disresepct of her not even agreeing to send a NC letter.

I'm not shooting the messenger. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help, but I just feel like she may need a little further push into the reality that I'm not going to wait forever and let her hurt our kids more by giving them false hope when she may have no intention of NC. ya know?

[Hope4us]

So are you saying I should tone down the letter into more of a reconciling type letter telling her I know we could be great again, but for me to begin trusting her I need those 3 things from her?

Not to be contrary, but that's just what I said in the note on Tuesday and so far she's ignored it. Do I just need to give her a little more time? A week? A month? Then what do I say? Hey, you still haven't got back to me on my boundaries I have from a month ago?

[Snow White]

Question - I understand why you want her to do a no contact letter but really if you think that her stating it to you or showing you that she will be faithful is not significant enough why would this letter make a diffence? You state that you have no way of verifying that she contacts him or not if she does not do the letter. What if she does? What would stop her from turning around and contacting him to say my H just made me write that letter so I can stay in the house just ignore it.

I am not giving advice I am just saying perhaps you are getting too hung up on one particular item that may have worked for other people but may or may not work in your situation.

[Hope4us]

Thanks Neecy. I guess there is nothing that would stop her from sending the NC letter and turning around and saying to OM, "don't pay attention to that".

The letter makes a difference to me mostly because however little faith I have in her right now, I've read on this board and another board that Waywards will often say they've sent/called/whatever to start NC, but never did. But once it's in writing it takes on more of a contract type feel to it. I guess I was hoping that by it being on paper there would be more of a finality to it.

So am I to say now, well, those boundaries I gave to you as to what I would need to agree to continue our marriage were only suggestions?

Not trying to be argumentative, but we all push for boundaries with our waywards and now it seems like I'm getting advise to not enforce those.

Don't stop posting. I'm not mad at anyone. I love a good arguement.