My wife and I have been married for almost 14 years and have three children. This is my first marriage and her second. Her first one ended in an anulment after just a few months due to her husband's cheating. My wife is pretty much a-sexual. Due to our beliefs, we waited unitl our wedding night for sex, which I now regard as a mistake. By our second day we had begun fighting about sex and it has never stopped. I am a high drive person and would be happy with once or twice per day. I have never actually figured out if my wife has a sex drive. Through our first few years, we would manage once or twice a week, but it always was a chore for my wife. She often encourages me to hurry up and finish. I always initiate. Our last several years have been hell for both of us. One of our children was diagnosed with cancer, the plant where I worked closed, my side business failed and I now have a crappy job. Near the end of my son's treatment I started looking at porn. After a couple of months, I decided that was wrong and confessed to my wife on the advice of my accountability partners, big mistake. Two years later, she still has not forgiven me, even after councelling etc. After years of constant rejection, being made to feel like a pervert for having a sex drive and enjoying variety, I have given up. The last time we had sex was Christmas. It took until late February for her to notice. I told her we would have sex as soon as she asked. It is now April. I now sympathize with her first husband. Bait and switch. She used to put out for him before they married and quit right after. I never even got that. If we did not have the children, I would leave. What should I do?
Hi, Near.
It is perfectly normal for a male of the species to have a sex drive. Period. Don't apologize for it. Stop being ashamed of it. God intended you to have it.
"Wife, I will not apologize for having a sex drive. It is perfectly normal and healthy for males to have a sex drive. what is abnormal is your handling of the facts. We need to work on that issue right now, and you can forget using the porn as an excuse for your lack of inaction. Time for change has come, like it or not".
That should be a good start.
Don't leave your house. She has no right to demand that you do, and if she falsely accuses you of abuse, hire a lawyer and get her for it.
You are not going to ever get anywhere with this woman playing nice.
NOPkins
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I realize that I am probably just venting at this point about my wife, but let me provide you with her schedule for sex: Monthly - The week - certainly not The week after - Still recovering from the week The week before - so b**chy that we fight the week Middle week - Maybe, see weekly schedule
Weekly schedule - Mon thru Friday - too busy Saturday - must go for my long run, not afterwards too dirty, not after a shower, now I'm clean, maybe during the shower if all conditions are met Sunday - too busy
Daily schedule- Never at night, can't sleep afterwards Mornings are ok, but certainly not weekdays, too busy, or Sundays, too busy, Saturdays see above.
Special occasions: Anniversery - Not since I can remember Usually just fight My Birthday - not in ten or more years to much effort for the cake Her birthday - best present I can give is not to suggest anything!
Her idea of a perfect romantic evening (expressed repeatedly) 1) Romantic dinner at a nice resturant 2) Retire to nice hotel room suitably prepared beforehand by me with candles flowers etc 3) I provide her with her favorite novel 4) Leave her in hotel room for the night.
Dance, she dispises me for who I am. No longer make a good living, lost a lot of confidence from the job & financial stuff, so on and so forth. Of course she hates the porn, equal to an affair in her eyes. Understand, after four years of chemo etc with our son, we are both drained emotionally. This has lowered the water in our relationship and we now see all the rocks that were hidden.
I am trying to have some humor, however, the above scenarios are accurate. After some consideration, I have decided to give up hope of ever having sex again with my wife, but it would be best to share the same bed.
Near...wow, the shared bed between a sexless couple. I was in that bed for so many years! I wouldn't go back...ugh. I hope a miracle occurs and you don't actually have to endure that for the next 10 years.
I have to ask about her perfect romantic evening. So...at number 4, she then wants you to leave her there alone in the hotel for the night and...then the next day she *might* want sex? Or...is she straight up saying "I only want to be romanced for the sake of it, but no sex"? I am confused!
Just a thought though...if she is asking to be left alone, is this because she needs time to herself and isn't getting it? I am just asking out of curiousity, not that it excuses anything.
Also, do you pray or meditate? (I am not religious, but I do pray and meditate, and was just curious. I am not meaning to open a can of worms).
In response to your question about the romantic evening, there would be no sex at any point. In my opinion, she wants the romance for the romance without any reciprocation on her part. Bear in mind, the first time she told me she thought this would be a great evening was at least ten years ago. In her mind, all of my romancing and wooing has to come without the expection or desire for sex in order for it to be genuine in her eyes. I can not recall the last date or any other such activity that actually resulted in sex. By the time the babysitter has been taken home 5-15 minutes, the wife is in bed with a book or asleep with a very obvious do not disturb sign. This holds true for our anniversery or any other occasion when most people expect to "celebrate". I think she often picks fights around those times to give herself the "emotional distance" excuse. I do recognize she needs time alone. I try to give her as much space as I can to go out with her friends or whatever else we can do on our limited budget.
Reading your story is painful for me because I've been there too, and not all that long ago. In my case, I started sleeping on the sofa-bed in my home office and turned the office into my bedroom, leaving my wife to the master bedroom. The result? While I was less sexually frustrated (by not having to lie next to someone whom I desperately wanted to touch, but whom I knew would not respond to me), the move made the distance between the two of us that much greater, and that much more difficult to bridge later on. So there was a plus and a stronger minus to it. Now, it may be that such a move reduces the sexual tension between the two of you enough to allow you to focus on rebuilding your friendship and emotional connection -- which it sounds like you truly need to do. Or, it may be that such a move is seen by your wife as a rejection of her and a withdrawal from the relationship in general. You'll need to decide whether a move to the basement will help your situation more that it hurts it, or not.
I strongly applaud the questions and advice that DanceQueen has given you so far. I know that it feels like you were 'duped,' but this is really not the case, as Michelle's SSM book explains. Seconding DanceQueen's motion, I would strongly recommend that you find a certified couples/marriage counselor who is also a certified sex therapist (see the AASECT website for a directory). Yes, going to counseling can be painful, but your wife needs to understand that not fixing your marriage will be even more painful, in the end, and that you are unwilling to live with the status quo any longer.
There are many, many marriages, like yours and mine, who get 'stung' by the binary nature of sex in our religious communities: it's supposed to be completely suppressed and "OFF" (including masturbation) prior to marriage, and then magically and wonderfully turned "ON" after marriage. Partners who obey the precepts end up not knowing even themselves sexually by the time of their wedding night, much less a member of the opposite sex. Your partner's libido also becomes a "surprise package" to open upon marriage (it may even be a surprise to them...): sometimes it's a good match, but often it's not. It's no wonder that many devout couples have trouble navigating these formerly forbidden waters, so you are certainly not alone there.
I have a couple of suggestions for reading material which may help.
First, and you may have already done this, I would find a good book on sexual techniques (or two) and go through them thoroughly -- there are several out there which are sensitive and non-pornographic in nature. This recommendation is not meant as a insult to you, but is based on the fact that most men do not naturally know how to please a woman sexually, and many women do not realize that they need to teach their man how it's done. You're just "supposed to know," right? Many devout women don't even know themselves, since self-exploration is verboten.
Second, and assuming that you two are practicing Christians, I would recommend that you and your wife read The 5 Sex Needs of Men & Women, by Gary and Barbara Rosberg, which dove-tails pretty nicely with The Sex-Starved Marriage and presents the topic from the perspective of a pair of well-known Christian counselors. I was rather skeptical when I first picked this one up, but was pleasantly surprised at how well the topic is treated. If you can get your wife to read it, it may help to turn her "men are just sexual perverts" attitude around.
Best of luck to you, and know that you have friends here.
Bagheera
Last edited by Bagheera; 04/10/0806:04 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Thanks for your post and suggestions. I suppose I am currently deciding if I can just manage without sex for the next however many years, so that may mean the status quo is acceptable (?).
I would agree with you about the suprise package of our sexuality had my wife been anything close to a virgin when we got married. She was not, so I do feel duped even having read the Sexless Marriage. What about marriage turns a woman off? I have also tried the sex education route, she is unwilling to experiment to try something different. I acknowledge that I could be a better lover and not only don't mind getting pointers, I find the whole experimenting thing to be fun! Our repretoire has actually diminished over the years with nothing new ever tried no matter what the suggestion or sources. Any suggestions on how to get my wife to actually pick up a book that might explain these kinds of things? The Rosenberg book sounds like a great idea, but how do you get someone who sees no need to change themselves to do something?
Near...back when I was a low desire wife, if my husband had made it clear to me that he was truly unhappy and was considering divorce, and then he offered a book for me to at least TRY reading for the sake of our marriage...I would have actually been happy that he was being pro-active rather than fuming, pouting, or generally being grumpy about it.
Also, you basically are using your wife's previous statement that she'd never do counseling again as an excuse for you to not be proactive about that and basically demand it. You don't want to step into the shoes of being the bigger person and putting your 100% effort into making changes that may save your marriage. Trust me, I am not getting down on you as I made the exact same mistake. I am divorced now and I'm pretty sure my marriage could have been saved if we had both not been too stubborn to be the bigger person.
If my ex-h had come to me with sincerity in his eyes and voice, and simply said "I love you but I cannot stay in a sexless marriage, I do not blame it all on you and I want to do whatever I can to make us happy again", and especially if he had done some research...well, my heart would have filled up with love for him had he done that. But instead, he did like you are doing: he assumed I duped him and that I was on my way out the door anyway, so why should he bother to be a better person for me?
Also...the child having cancer and chemo...this is a really really huge issue for you both, and I feel horrible for you...it really has to have a huge impact on every part of your lives. Some women (and some men too) just completely withdraw their sexual energy during trauma and crisis, and then sometimes, you don't use it and then you lose it. I feel this may be true for your wife.
Please just try some of these suggestions...but first you are going to have to committ to doing things a better way, and keep doing them, even if your ideas get shot down.
Knowing your story, you are probably right about the results from my current course of action. My problem is trying to decdide if I really want to pay the price to change the situation. My wife has repeatedly said she will not go to any further counseling. I also believe that she does not think we are in a sexless marriage. (How can you miss something you don't care about) What are the odds of being able to hold the marriage together without sex? If I don't leave over her actions, does she stay as she is not missing anything important to her? It is hard deciding to be the bigger person or not. I do feel duped. She failed to tell me until recently that she quit sleeping with her ex right after they got married. I am starting to sympathize with the guy. We even filled out some pre marriage counseling stuff where she said once a day or so would be ok for her. I realize that I am being bitter about this stuff. I am trying to figure out how to get it out of my system so I can move forward.
