Please help me! Wife wants out! (5)

[steve477]

Hi all,

Having an early night tonight. Put W to bed. She said that I can go and join her later if I want. I told her that it does sound nice, but I might be nice for me to wait until she wants me to join, and not because she is sorry for me. She said she is not feeling sorry for me. So I asked does that mean you want me here? She just smiled, a cheeky smile. A flirty conversation.
I always tell her to call me anytime during the night if she is sick or needs me for anything. She jsut called me, so I went in and asked what was up? She said that the baby was kicking again, and took my hand to put on her stomach. Felt it kick again! We refer to it as she now. Dont know for sure yet, but it feels like a she. I listened to her stomach for a while and its really strange, sounds like an underwater scene!
W went to the doctor today, doctor remembered that last time W was in she was talking about S and stuff. Asked W hows it going now. W said that things seem to be getting a bit better, and we are trying to work out a few things. W also intimated that she is `trying` to let go of OM. Doing it for herself, not for me (whatever that may mean in alien W world). I didnt point out that I thought going cold turkey was best. Let her do it in her own time is best, especially as she will see him everyday.

Things with Dad warming up, but my Mum went off on one this afternoon. Talked a bit with W about it. Said that I have been trying to make everyone happy recently and have ended up making noone happy. She said that I have made her happy.

Small baby steps... small positives.

Goodnight

Steve

[steve477]

Looking at the 5 Love Languages book. There are a laod of versions. Is the `Mans` version much different from the `regular` version? Anyone know? Is it a book worth reading? Seen a few folks talking about it.

Cheers

Steve

[Rob1231]

The "Mans" version of 5LL is virtually identical to the original - just a different cover as far as I could tell! Just get the original - it's a quick read, you will breeze through it in one evening.

[sandi2]

Hi Steve,

I think I misquoted part of that site that I was referring to, it is [censored] (I was close) and the author is David Cunningham. I have not gotten his book simply b/c it is teaching men how to make women happy. Since I am a woman and already know what most women want.....I just get his free newsletter through email (lol). But, he is great and seems to have it right. I just wished my H would read the emails! I think, if you went to the correct site, that this book will be a great help to you.

Steve, you have taken all of our advice in such a positive way. Most people would have gotten mad or fussed back at us, but you have really tried to learn....and you have. You are doing so much better.....SO MUCH BETTER.

You said you did not know why you got so clingy and needy. I think it is b/c you were so afraid of loosing your W that it made you feel insecure in your manliness (if that is a good word).

Relaxing is the key for me now.

I think it is to that point that you really need to relax....both of you. Your nerves have been on end for a long time.

It does seem to be a bit counter productive to let her pursue me, when it seems she doesn't want me, but I will try it for a while. Wont hurt!

I know it seems that way to you, but when I read all the sign in the post you write about her, it does seem to me that she is coming around. It is not as fast as you want it to be, but it is coming, Steve. Just think about what she told the doctor! That is good news. By saying that she was letting go of OM for her and not you.....it is hard to explain, but I know what she means (I think). It is like when I go on a diet, if I don't do it for me and I try to do it for my H, it usually doesn't work out too well. I have to see that it is what is best for me in the long run of things. My H will benefit also, but it has to be for me. Just as the changes you have made in yourself has been for YOU....not to just draw your W back. It may not have been the answer you had hoped she would give the doctor, but I think it was a positive answer. You may have really wanted her to say that she was giving up the OM b/c she loved you more than him....yes?

For her to continue to include you in the part of the baby is also good. I think her kind of flirting with you when you last questioned her about the sleeping arrangements was good, too.

If I did not have so much hope and I did not care about you, rest assured I would not put my time and effort into writing these long posts....lol. But I see a lot of promise here, sweetie. You are trying harder than anyone I know to do what people advise you. You are reading everything you can get your hands on to help you. I don't know much more that anyone could ask from a poster seeking help.

As far as her doing all the pursuing.......you have to look for "signals"......like the light flirting. That is saying that she is getting more relaxed about the thought of you sleeping with her. In time, the signals will get stronger as she gets more ready for intimacy. Some women (like myself) would not go jump her H's bones and tell him she is ready to have sex....but instead she would give him the "right" signals for him to know she desired him. That is what has to have time in your M to build in her is desire to have sex with you. It is healthy to have light/fun teasing or flirting to begin with. If that goes well, then as time goes by....it will increase until you have finally succeeded and reached your "goal" back to being intimate with each other. I think she is right in turning loose of the OM before being intimate with you. She is still working all of that out in her mind and heart. You have done so well that it has caused her to think that leaving you for the OM is not such a good idea any longer. Yea Steve!!

I have never been the type to pursue my H to have sex.....but he would get the idea when to take over as the alpha male....and you will too. By pursuing, we don't mean for you to be completely passive and wait for her to ravish you (lol), but I hope that I have explained it a little better. It is a natural instinct for a female to flirt with her H when she desires sex, and that is pursuing for some women.

It's late and I have to go to bed. Take care, relax and try to just enjoy the trip.


Well the moderator won't let me put the words in but just add "ing" to what you said about make her happy and you've got it. (lol) I'm sure you figured it out anyway.

Sandi

[steve477]

Thanks Rob, Ill get it.

Thank you again Sandi, you have been wonderful to me recently. I have been starting to feel a bit anxious recently. Not sure why (stopped taking my herbal relaxants last week, might start again).
I think now that things are going well I might be having time to look at my own issues with what she is doing, as opposed to just being in `panic mode`. I think most people go through this. I need to keep reminding myself of what things we like last month or the month before, that I AM making progress. I need to remember that OM WILL fade away. I guess I just wonder at this stage, why she chose him, someone who arguably has much less to offer her than I do. I understand the whole reason for the attraction, but to continue.... Hey I could understand if it was Matt Damon (her favourite), I would ket her go then to a better life, I would even ask her to send me an autograph!! But.... you know. She wont have a better life with this guy. Anyway I am not obessing, this is the only place I can come to say this stuff.
I am be happy with the progress we are making.

I do get the emails Sandi, they are good, and his book is also very good! Buy it for your H!

By saying that she was letting go of OM for her and not you.....it is hard to explain, but I know what she means (I think). It is like when I go on a diet, if I don't do it for me and I try to do it for my H, it usually doesn't work out too well. I have to see that it is what is best for me in the long run of things. My H will benefit also, but it has to be for me. Just as the changes you have made in yourself has been for YOU....not to just draw your W back.

Little bit ashamed that I didnt see it this way myself to begin with. I am doing one thing, I cannot expect any more or less from my W than to work on herself first too! Thank you for putting it this way.

You may have really wanted her to say that she was giving up the OM b/c she loved you more than him....yes?

Yes, but with what you wrote before, I can see that letting him go for herself would be much better and have more chance of lasting.

But I see a lot of promise here, sweetie. You are trying harder than anyone I know to do what people advise you. You are reading everything you can get your hands on to help you. I don't know much more that anyone could ask from a poster seeking help.

Thank you Sandi, do I get a gold star for being a good student? I am really eating up all the information I am getting from everywhere, I can really assimilate what is good for me, and make it work towards making me a better man!

As far as her doing all the pursuing.......you have to look for "signals"......like the light flirting. That is saying that she is getting more relaxed about the thought of you sleeping with her. In time, the signals will get stronger as she gets more ready for intimacy.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can see now that W doesnt like to initiate physical intimacy because she is afraid of rejection. She tried to initiate once, I remember it was about 3am one morning and I was woken up by her hands rubbing my chest. She was kissing me too. She had woken up horny. Unfortunatly I never woke up properly, it never happened. She saw that as a rejection and has not tried to initiate since. I little unfair I think, but anyway. I have since guaranteed her that I would never turn her down again (not that I think I did, I didnt know what was happening I was too sleepy!), and she should feel safe to initiate. Oh Well. Along with her saying she wanted to be with a strong man who could take care of her, she also used to say things like that for our sex life, she wanted to be `taken` `ravished` by a strong man who knew what he was doing and what she liked. My W was my first lover, and I didn fumble around a bit to begin with. I have since realised I approached sex with the wrong mindset. Orgasms were rarely a problem for my W I could give her them quite often, so I thought sex was good for her. I have sice realised that it could have been so much better for both of us and I think I know how to do it now. I have a better mindset. I am in my masculine and she is in her feminine (thank you David Deida), and a few books on technique opened my eyes too!!! I guess thats another reason for wanting the intimacy, I want to see if I have improved!lol.

I think she is right in turning loose of the OM before being intimate with you. She is still working all of that out in her mind and heart. You have done so well that it has caused her to think that leaving you for the OM is not such a good idea any longer. Yea Steve!!

Probably right there too. I think she need to work it all out first. Glad I could start to bring her back.

It is a natural instinct for a female to flirt with her H when she desires sex, and that is pursuing for some women.

Good, she was patting my newly tight bottom a bit this morning lol! There is hope yet!

Sandi you really made me feel better!

Cheers

Steve

[saffie]

I love coming and reading your thread Steve - there is so much hope here!!! I don't often say anything because you get such excellent support - but I wanted you to know that I am still here - reading along.

I get exactly where your W was coming from with the rejection thing and you not waking up; I got that once with my H and so I never try to wake him up and it does make me hesitant about intiating things - and we've been married over 21 years and have 4 children!!! Women are very complex creatures- poor men

I noted your comments about OM not having so much to offer. Apparently that is quite common in A partners-people tend to trade down. I think it can be a sign of their insecurity. You KNOW you are the better option - and it looks very much to me that your W does too.

ps. didn't reply to the joke because I didn't get it.....and yes....I'm blonde ( and I feel stupid I can't get it)

[steve477]

I tell you what, I am frustrated now. My mother has pissed me off. She did yesterday as well. Telling me that she hates to hear me talk about Japan (british bulldog coming out in her), balh blah blah. If I love Japan so much why did I come to the UK? (Couldnt really say because I felt obliged to for the family).
Today, she calls me up to ask me if we (me and W) want `the` crib. The one that I used and my sister and cousins etc... I said I dont know. I will think about it. I got back an `ok, fine got to go now, bye` then hung up. OK so I knew what she wanted to hear but I didnt say it.

Seems they dont like to see me capitulating to W (as they percieve it), but expect me to back down to them. They want me to satnd up to W, but not to them. Not really understanding that I am not standing up TO W, I am standing up FOR myself!

I talked with W about this yesterday (its nice, we are a team in this). I said that I am trying to make some changes in my life, and I know that W can see them. But it seems that no one is `ready` for me. W is not ready to take me back as the man I know I am/can be. Family not ready (possibly never will be) to see me as an inderpenant man, not just a son, brother, nephew etc...
I am SO ready to do SOMETHING! I am ready to sweep my W off her feet, to swoon her.... I am ready to make her my woman, becaouse I am her man.... Iam ready to march into her office and beat seven kinds of #%&` out of OM.... I am ready to protect my W and my child, MY LIFE.... Iam ready to stand on my own two feet emotionally and financially from everyone else... I am ready to become a man, not just a son.... Iam ready to make whatever changes my life needs to make sure I am living it fully!!

Well get ready world because Steve is coming.... ready or not!!

But in the meantime, I know, I know... baby steps, one day at a time. Relaxxxxxx.

LOL.

My time will come...

Cheers

Steve

[steve477]

Blonde in a cafe reading a newspaper. Man sitting next to her. Blonde reads the headline `12 Brazilian Soldiers Killed`. Blonde looks very sad. Then turn to the man and asks `how many are the in a Brazilian?`

Helps to say it out loud. Like how many are there in a million, billion, trillion, zillion, gazillion...brazilian.

I didnt get it at first either but after I did I thought it was funny!

Thanks for your reply Saffie, glad to see you are still here. I am a hopeful guy. Cant keep me down for long.

I get exactly where your W was coming from with the rejection thing and you not waking up; I got that once with my H and so I never try to wake him up and it does make me hesitant about intiating things - and we've been married over 21 years and have 4 children!!! Women are very complex creatures- poor men

Oh... well I have some work to do there then!

You KNOW you are the better option - and it looks very much to me that your W does too.

Exactly, I really hope that she does too.
Thats the great thing about coming here, it is a chance to get other perspectives, to help you see things you cant. Like with Sandis post before that really helped me to `see` something a little clearer that has been in front of me for a while!

Men can be a bit simple too. I love being sinple sometimes, but need to open my eyes more!

Cheers

Steve

[saffie]

Doh!!!!!!!! Now I get IT!!!!!!!!

Hey Steve - the post before last was all about you - WOW!!! They are all just getting used to your changes - stick to your guns.

About the Japan thing and your mum - just remember she's your MUM and she would miss you and may well be scared you won't come back - when your child is born you will realise that that can be a very upsetting thought. I can get upset thinking about my children leaving home; you know they are going to but I guess it's nice to still have them near. From your mum's perspective she would be losing not only you but also her grandchild.

[steve477]

Hey Saffie

Hey Steve - the post before last was all about you - WOW!!!

Didnt even realise!!

she's your MUM and she would miss you and may well be scared you won't come back - when your child is born you will realise that that can be a very upsetting thought.

There is that, but also as my family is so close knit, there is a control aspect too I think. I think I only notice it because I went away and came back. And if I go, I dont plan to come back. I have to do what I think is best for MY family now. I really dont want to sound heartless, but I really cant make everyone happy. Had a big talk with W about it, and through this I think we actually get closer together. Not that I am trying to use these situations, would rather do without them to be honest.
w cooked a lovely dinner tonight. She even put a ketchup heart on my dinner (either that or a ketchup pacman, pretty sure it was a heart though! :)). So that has go to be a good sign. Didnt ask for any kisses or anything, had a few hugs, bit of physical contact, but all naturally occuring. Gave her a back massage before she slept. We are getting along well.

She called me at work today, she was angry with the hospital receptionist, as she wasnt to change her scan appointment but wasnt allowed. She asked me to call, to do something about it. I should protect her she said, stand up for her, (basically be a man for her). Took my chance well. Receptionist was very snooty, and I politly made it know that I was not happy with the way my W as spoken too etc.... changed the appointment. So I got to be a bit of a hero today. These are the challenges I am chomping at the bit for now, chances to prove myself. To me more than anyone else.

Anyway

Speak tomorrow,

Cheers

Steve