W called a couple hours ago asking if I was busy because she was getting off work early (she is sick) and wanted to talk. We talked, but she still does not know what she wants and she cant really open up.
She says her L (a different L with the same firm) has sent her a contract and wants a retainer started. Most likely my L has contacted her L again, although I have not talked to my L for a few weeks. She also said that she was rejected on her application to get an apartment and would need a co-signer and is hesitant to ask OM to do this. She had a big talk with him last Friday, but did not elaborate what it was about. Only thing she said was that it wore her down so emotionally that she wonders if that is why she is so sick right now.
I told her to not worry about the legal things, but lets talk about us. She just does not know. She does believe that OM will burn out, but she is uncertain about whether we will work out as she still has a desire to go bar hoping. She also says that she has always been a person that does not desire sex and that she thought that might be a roadblock for us in the future. I told her that is always something we could work on with counseling. I said that I dont want her to come back just for the sake of the kids, but because she loves me and is willing to work with me on rebuilding our M.
She is really concerned about hurting me again and still needs time. She expressed that maybe we should finish the D just so I can get on with my life. I said I am ok for now and can patiently wait longer if there is a chance.
I am so up in the air right now as to what I should do. Part of me wants the old W back, but I dont know if that will ever happen. How can I be convinced that if she comes back that she wont hit the bars again seeking the attention of other men. Also, her admitting that she cant lose the "lets get it over with" attitude in regards to sex is a bit disturbing. I want someone to be intimate with that does not think they are performing a job for their H. I am really thinking she is a lost cause, but I want to give her the benefit of the doubt. What we once had was a fantastic M that many would be envious of, and many times I know she initiated sex and enjoyed it immensely.
She also said that she would never get married again - even to OM. I said that it may be that statement which is the crux of her problem - the feeling of being tied down by the commitment of marriage. That is probably the biggest difference between the 2 of us. Marriage means so much to me, whereas, she sees it as a form of a prison.
I found your conversation w/ W to be interesting. I think your honesty in saying "I said I am ok for now and can patiently wait longer if there is a chance" is good.
It will be up to her as well, but you can also suggest some things. You may want to spend the money (I know that is a difficult subject for most of us right now) and call a DB coach. To me, it sounds like you have some very big avenues to do some real DBing, but I'm not sure what to advise.
I do think that she doesn't want the D. Maybe it is up to you to suggest you both go to counseling and see how it goes from there. Also, is there a shot at you living apart for 6 months, "dating", and working on your M? If she balks at this, it would send a loud signal. If she goes back to "bar hopping" it will soon fade if you are her focus and you don't react. However, if it doesn't, you'd have your answer there as well.
My hesitation here is I don't want to steer you into something that will be viewed as pressure on W, so just take this as my $0.02 for now and see what others have to say. You may like hearing from a DB coach. I liked talking w/ mine. RTL
Thanks for the advice RTL. I spoke with her friend shortly after I finished our talk and we both agreed to give it another month. I will talk to W about what you suggest - a 6 month wait before throwing in the towel. This would put me at exactly 1 year from the bomb, which is what I initially had thought was a good amount of time to wait. Even if it does not work out after those 6 months, I will have kept myself busy and happy enough to not consider it a waste.
I have gotten myself to a place where the kids and I seem to be coping ok. I will still go on the 3 week road trip vacation to Utah with the kids at the end of June. I dont think W would enjoy it as much as the kids and myself. She is not a camping lady, but has tolerated it before. That is still a long way off. I will probably even swing by the Grand Canyon in your state as I have only ever seen that from an airplane.
I believe too much in my marriage to give up so easily. I also believe my W has a good chance of getting her life figured out within that time.
I am so glad you are giving it more time. A while back your posts were sounding to me like you were resigned to the big D and to your wife being with OM. I am glad you are "back in the saddle" of working to salvage/rebuild your relationship with your wife.
I looked at some of the things you sent to Woog tonight. Who knew, fly fishing in Greece? You are a man of many talents and I am always amazed at what you can locate on the internet....
I always thought that movie had some beautiful scenes/scenery.
Good night, good luck, hope you get to golf again soon...
Sounds like she managed to get you back on the hook. Seems as if the dynamic changed. She wanted you when you were becoming less available, now is throwing up some roadblocks when you take a step her way. Don't make it so easy for her....if she wants you, then she'll get off the snide, otherwise, assume she doesn't.
I'm not saying, proceed with the D, but I am saying proceed with your life. It's okay to consider her positives (which are probably somewhat distorted by rose colored glasses...be honest), but it's not wrong to consider that she has negatives also...which is okay because so do you. I wouldn't set a timeline necessarily and I wouldn't share it with your wife. You are done when you are done. Why does it rely on her? If she wants to D you, or marry OM, then she can do the D paperwork. Telling her, "I'm going to give this 6 more months", just seems like some form of countdown. Why even mention it?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Man that OM/daddy line must be a knife in the heart. You seem to be taking hits emotionally, financially, the kids, the W, the OM, bang, bang, bang. Yet you still remain stoic. It is admriable. Know that you will come from this experience a wiser, better person. As much as it hurts, you are better for having loved. (At least that's what I tell myself.)
Me: 35 WAW: 28 Bomb: 1/13/08 S: 1/14/08 D filed: 2/24/08 D final on 7/07/08
Do your damndest in an ostentatious manner all the time. -George S. Patton
My Sitch http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1405138&page=0&fpart=1
I think there are different opinions about setting a deadline. My counselor had thought that I should have set one. I had no idea at the time of a realistic deadline. I can see that by me telling W that I will give her until Oct 2008, that she could take this as how long she can have fun before she returns to her prison of marital responsibility.
I think W and I need to have some additional talks about where she has come emotionally through all this and whether she can see our M succeeding. I did suggest the 6 month wait briefly to her this morning and she said she is concerned about hurting me again. She does care about me, but I dont know if it is enough for her to want to abandon her second life.
I am proceeding with my life as if I am D'd right now - except for dating, which I dont plan right away because it is not fair to the other person. I also am weighing my own feelings towards my W. To be honest, I dont think she deserves me. There are much better women for me. I have learned so much in my marriage, and during this last 6 months, that I am confident my next R will be absolutely wonderful. I am not desperate for companionship and can be choosey when the time comes to start dating again.
Kerry - I have been keeping up on your thread. You must be so confused, since everything your W is doing is so confusing.
But...I just wanted to say that the one thing she has been consistent about, is telling you in total honesty that she does not want to stop bar-hopping. This has been prioritized over you, your marriage, your children, and her own health and well-being. Its really sad, yes, but at least she is being totally honest.
I really think you should just truly *listen* to her at this point, and stop trying to change her mind. If she comes around on her own and changes her mind on her own before your deadline, then great. But otherwise...while you keep saying that you think you need to have more "talks" with her, this isn't really what is needed, IMO. Every time you talk to her about the R, she says the same things, but specifically she says she is not done with the bar scene and partying. This part has not changed at all.
For whatever reason, this is her life now and she has no intention of changing it.
I'm glad you are finally starting to see that she may not be worthy of you. I mean seriously, I do not judge her, but as far as having a quality relationship with someone, she really doesn't stack up to that. She is a really good bar-hopper and in that sense, you aren't good for her either. She needs a bar-fly man who will stand by her in her bad habits. She can easily find lots of those. What you need is a truly good woman who wants a truly good relationship....and no, she isn't in that category anymore.
What I've read and seen with MLC's is that you basically have to consider the "old" person as deceased. They ceased to exist as you once knew them. Now you are dealing with a new person, who has alien-like qualities that you don't recognize. This is not the same person.
That's why it will forever be OK for you to mourn your previous wife. She is gone now and you have to go through the griveing process. And we dont just forget and move on when someone has died, we really honor who they were and we remember them and still love them. So you will always be allowed to fondly remember your past with her, and also, know that it was "real"...regardless of who she is now.
And as for who she is now, you have no real obligation to this new alien, except in the form of co-parenting. You are not obligated to love her or be married to her anymore. You are legally obligated to her and that part sucks, but you are not emotionally obligated to her in any way. Try to remember the difference between your deceased previous wife, and the current alien wife. They are not the same people.
It looks like we are in for some great weather this weekend in the 70's!!!
You make a lot of sense. I am happy to have met my W as we had a great marriage and have 2 wonderful kids. I tend to believe that she has returned to the true person she was before I met her. She played the role of wife and mother and something was missing in it for her. Would I have fallen in love with the previous person she was when she was in college in Thailand? No way - drinking/smoking party girls dont interest me at all.
I have reached a new level of patience. Everyone keeps telling me that I am going to come out of this ok. I am so confident that they are all correct.
What Nietzsche says is so true... "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
